A Few Words About A few words about...™ Lawrence of Arabia -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

I continue to hear about new fine grain stocks being so good but somehow it does not translate to a picture on screen that I would find superior to vintage prints from the 60s and 70s except of course for the fact that those vintage prints are now faded and some shade of red or magenta. Maybe it is some kind of generational loss that makes these less impressive but this is what I see.

Some of the best looking new 70mm/5-perf images I have seen recently were in The Master and in The Hateful Eight, others I found less impressive.

 

[DP 70]

One of the best new 70mm prints I have seen was Hello Dolly but I think some of the problem is due to the modern polyester film stock
which seems to cause more movement and focus issues.
I don't think you will can ever beat an original 70mm acetate film print projected by carbon arcs if it still had full colour and of course in full 6-track stereo magnetic sound.

 

[OliverK]

One of the best new 70mm prints I have seen was Hello Dolly but I think some of the problem is due to the modern polyester film stock
which seems to cause more movement and focus issues.
I don't think you will can ever beat an original 70mm acetate film print projected by carbon arcs if it still had full colour and of course in full 6-track stereo magnetic sound.

It is hard to say what causes the discrepancy, maybe it was because back then these were all contact prints from the negative?

I saw Hello Dolly! and it was the best looking 70mm print of a musical that I have seen, better than South Pacific, Dr. Dolittle and Star!

Other very good new prints were The Agony and the Ecstasy and Patton and the first prints of Spartacus and Lawrence Arabia that were struck for the original re-release had very good colors in some of the prints that I have seen, very impressive.

 

[PMF]

Edited by PMF; see Post #405, instead.

 

[PMF]

[...] I hope we on the east coast are given the opportunity to appreciate the 70mm print. I'm not as discerning as most on this site; but, I still would like the opportunity to see it this way.

Ditto. As it is, I still cherish my memories of seeing the original 70MM restoration at The Ziegfeld.

[...]I'm so jealous of anyone who have the chance to view it on the 15th. I'd love to hear Mr. Crisp talk.

Ditto, again.
Mr. Crisp, please come to the East Coast.

 

[Robert Harris]

It is hard to say what causes the discrepancy, maybe it was because back then these were all contact prints from the negative?

I saw Hello Dolly! and it was the best looking 70mm print of a musical that I have seen, better than South Pacific, Dr. Dolittle and Star!

Other very good new prints were The Agony and the Ecstasy and Patton and the first prints of Spartacus and Lawrence Arabia that were struck for the original re-release had very good colors in some of the prints that I have seen, very impressive.

I believe all original prints were exposed on optical printers. Certainly not continuous contact. They were all either A/B roll or auto-select.

MFL was auto-select, Techniscope format.

 

[OliverK]

"In the intervening time, renewed interest in 70mm print exhibition has generated many requests for new 70mm prints of Lawrence and we decided that this would be a good time to honor those requests. The new 70mm prints are really meant for those audiences who truly appreciate the art and technology of film production and exhibition, explains Grover Crisp, Executive Vice President, Asset Management, Film Restoration & Digital Mastering, Sony Studios."
I hope we on the east coast are given the opportunity to appreciate the 70mm print. I'm not as discerning as most on this site; but, I still would like the opportunity to see it this way.

Technicalities aside seeing this in a cinema on a big screen with an appreciative audience is an experience that I highly recommend. No matter if it is a 4k DCP, a 70mm print or a filmout from 4k, all three presentations can look very good and if the opportunity arises run, don't walk to see it!

 

[Garysb]

Ditto. As it is, I still cherish my memories of seeing the original 70MM restoration at The Ziegfeld.

Ditto, again.
Mr. Crisp, please come to the East Coast.

Since The Ziegfeld closed there are not too many places in NYC that have a big screen to fully appreciate a 70 MM film. Would an AMC or Regal multiplex allow their largest screens to be used to show Lawrence ?
Maybe if it was shown by the Film Society at Lincoln Center.

 

[OliverK]

I believe all original prints were exposed on optical printers. Certainly not continuous contact. They were all either A/B roll or auto-select.

MFL was auto-select, Techniscope format.

That's interesting about the optical printing as I always had heard that prints in the US were contact printed and only in Europe I knew that they used optical printing at least at Technicolor London which makes sense as they would work mostly with Technirama productions for 70mm printing.

In any case going off the OCN there would be no generational loss due to intermediary elements and the prints that came from Technicolor London certainly looked fantastic with probably the sharpest one I have seen being a reduction print (2.76 squeezed to 2.2 flat aspect ratio) of Fall of the Roman Empire - they didn't even use the whole negative for that one!

Regarding A/B roll or auto-select I spoke to somebody at Pinewood some time ago and he confirmed that the two Bronston productions of 55 Days at Peking and Circus World were both A/B roll and luckily the negatives were still in very good shape a few years ago.

 

[OliverK]

Since The Ziegfeld closed there are not too many places in NYC that have a big screen to fully appreciate a 70 MM film. Would an AMC or Regal multiplex allow their largest screens to be used to show Lawrence ?
Maybe if it was shown by the Film Society at Lincoln Center.

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread a 4k DCP will certainly not look worse by definition than a filmout from 4k to 70mm so I would rather set my sights on a big screen 4k presentation on a well maintained digital projector than a cobbled together 70mm exhibition on a projector that only is used for this ever 10 months by somebody who may have a hard time remembering how all of that 70 mm stuff worked the last time he used it. I am not being negative but only sensible as 70mm exhibition is much harder to get right than projecting a 4k DCP.

 

[Garysb]

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread a 4k DCP will certainly not look worse by definition than a filmout from 4k to 70mm so I would rather set my sights on a big screen 4k presentation on a well maintained digital projector than a cobbled together 70mm exhibition on a projector that only is used for this ever 10 months by somebody who may have a hard time remembering how all of that 70 mm stuff worked the last time he used it. I am not being negative but only sensible as 70mm exhibition is much harder to get right than projecting a 4k DCP.

I don't think we know at this time whether the new 70MM print that is to being shown in LA was struck from a filmout 4K or some type of film negative. Hopefully the American Cinematheque, which programs the Egyptian and Aero Theaters , will present the film properly.

http://www.americancinemathequecalendar.com/egyptian_theatre_events

 

[Worth]

I don't think we know at this time whether the new 70MM print that is to being shown in LA was struck from a filmout 4K or some type of film negative.

There's a quote earlier in this thread from Grover Crisp where he states a new negative was created from the 4K digital restoration and that 70mm prints were made from that.

"When we completed the digital restoration of Lawrence of Arabia in 2012, we also wanted to preserve on film all the hard work that went into the image restoration. So, we produced a new 65mm negative primarily for preservation purposes. In the intervening time, renewed interest in 70mm print exhibition has generated many requests for new 70mm prints of Lawrence and we decided that this would be a good time to honor those requests. The new 70mm prints are really meant for those audiences who truly appreciate the art and technology of film production and exhibition, explains Grover Crisp, Executive Vice President, Asset Management, Film Restoration & Digital Mastering, Sony Studios.

 

[Robert Harris]

I don't think we know at this time whether the new 70MM print that is to being shown in LA was struck from a filmout 4K or some type of film negative. Hopefully the American Cinematheque, which programs the Egyptian and Aero Theaters , will present the film properly.

http://www.americancinemathequecalendar.com/egyptian_theatre_events

4k

 

[Alberto_D]

About the digital work on Lawrence of Arabia, was it scanned at 8K but digitally restored in 4 K?
Was the 8K scanning saved ?

Sorry to mix The Godfather in this topic but I didn't found the topic A Few Words about The Godfather.
In the video about the last restoration you said the interpositives created from the camera negative, had lower details in the shaddows due the camera negative be subexposed (decision from photography director) and shaddows after each copy tends to get somewhat darker near blacks (in gamma curve graphic).
Considering fine grain duplication stock had some wider dynamic range than color film for shoot, if you was the person in charge, in the early 70's, to create the dupe protection master (red/green/blue separations in B&W stock) would you had exposed the dupe differently in order to try to preserve better the delicated shadow tonalities captured in the camera negative?

 

[OliverK]

There's a quote earlier in this thread from Grover Crisp where he states a new negative was created from the 4K digital restoration and that 70mm prints were made from that.

That quote sounded so strange that I was not quite sure that Grover Crisp really said that. There is nothing wrong per se with a filmout from 4k to 70 mm but why not call it that?

 

[OliverK]

I don't think we know at this time whether the new 70MM print that is to being shown in LA was struck from a filmout 4K or some type of film negative. Hopefully the American Cinematheque, which programs the Egyptian and Aero Theaters , will present the film properly.

http://www.americancinemathequecalendar.com/egyptian_theatre_events

From what I gather the Eyptian is among the few venues where they regularly show 70 mm so this should be a first class presentation.

 

[DP 70]

I am still looking forward to LOA coming out on 4K UHD disc.

 

[Robert Harris]

About the digital work on Lawrence of Arabia, was it scanned at 8K but digitally restored in 4 K?
Was the 8K scanning saved ?

Sorry to mix The Godfather in this topic but I didn't found the topic A Few Words about The Godfather.
In the video about the last restoration you said the interpositives created from the camera negative, had lower details in the shaddows due the camera negative be subexposed (decision from photography director) and shaddows after each copy tends to get somewhat darker near blacks (in gamma curve graphic).
Considering fine grain duplication stock had some wider dynamic range than color film for shoot, if you was the person in charge, in the early 70's, to create the dupe protection master (red/green/blue separations in B&W stock) would you had exposed the dupe differently in order to try to preserve better the delicated shadow tonalities captured in the camera negative?

No

 

[Alberto_D]

I remamber that took some time to DVD Beaver use 1080p captures in their reviews, when blu ray movies start to get into the market.
Now there are 4K blu ray, but there is still no 2160p screen captures for reviews yet.
We are curious to see Lawrence of Arabia 4K captures, when the UHD blu ray get released.

 

[Robert Harris]

I remamber that took some time to DVD Beaver use 1080p captures in their reviews, when blu ray movies start to get into the market.
Now there are 4K blu ray, but there is still no 2160p screen captures for reviews yet.
We are curious to see Lawrence of Arabia 4K captures, when the UHD blu ray get released.

Where would you view 2160 captures, and what would you hope to learn from them?