Will Krupp
Senior HTF Member
Well, thank you very much for the kind words, guys. I honestly wasn't fishing and didn't expect that response. Thank you.
However, I was once able to compare a 35mm projected IB print of "Down Argentine Way" with the DVD.
Hey oldtimer, I found that link I was talking about the other day. It turns out I was referring to the 20th Century Fox holdings at UCLA. This is the entry on DOWN ARGENTINE WAY:
Thanks for the links Will. Fascinating!
What I was getting at was that there are obviously a lot of nitrate Technicolor prints out there just waiting to be accessed for release to DVD or Blu-ray. Trouble is that most private collectors of 35mm prints are pretty secretive about their possessions for obvious reasons.
And all of which are among the best looking of the Fox Blu-ray releases from that era (along with The Gang's All Here.)
I was a rabid fan of THE GANG'S ALL HERE in my teens, and was hoping to see more Fox Technicolor in the 70s. I'd have been bitterly disappointed if I'd known that Fox was in the process of ruining all their Technicolor films at that very time!Beyond feature productions that had Technicolor sequences, in the nitrate era, Fox created over 90 films.
Over a third of them were musicals, and they took extraordinary advantage of the three-strip technology, creating a very specific Fox Technicolor appearance.
Afaik, with a single exception, none of the original elements survive, which means that we're left with what was produced in the mid-1970s.
And those elements were produced in the most incorrect manner imaginable.
This horror story has been covered ad nauseam, so we won't revisit. But for those who may not be aware, that is why Fox cannot reproduce their Technicolor productions to appear as Technicolor.
When the films arrive on home video, as have the most recent three, from Twilight Time, results are acceptable, at best.
All produced on the same film stocks, and with the same technology, their quality on Blu-ray comes down to a single major factor - how well the dupe materials were produced. And generally, they were garbage.
So how do the latest releases fare, and how do the films stand the test of time?
Mother Wore Tights (1947) and Hello, Frisco, Hello (1943), fare better than Pin-up Girl (1944). Old-fashioned charming, assembly line Fox musicals. One of the main attributes of the films was Technicolor, and without that function blazing from the screen, they all fall a notch.
Pin-Up is also the least of the three in terms of tech quality, followed by Hello and Mother. Hello's main title sequence is the most window-boxed that I recall seeing. It might have been projected on the moon, which gives us the concept that this is an older transfer.
Probably because Mother isn't held back by dark sequences, it looks better overall, with a light, bright look, that still lacks the Technicolor pop.
Any dark sequences have virtually no shadow detail, but viewers should be used to this from other Fox releases.
If you're a fan of the Fox musicals in general, or completists for Betty Grable, Alice Faye or Dan Dailey, best to grab these, as akin to most other Twilight Time releases, when they're gone...
Twilight Time deserves the Mother Teresa Award for releasing
RAH
By the way Louis B said to Minelli and Kelly 'Why can't you make your movies look like a Fox musical?' I guess we'll never really know what a Fox musical looked like.
Thank you RAH for clarifying what actually happened to the Fox film elements. I have to wonder if the Zanucks were still in control of Fox, would the same horrible decision been made regarding those film elements? I don't think so, but you never know.
He should have asked the people in the developing room.Louis B asked Minnelli and Kelly why they couldn't make their movies look like the Fox musicals.
It seems that what was done was willful.
The CRIs were made at De Luxe instead of Technicolor, right? How much of their problems can be blamed on second-rate lab work and how much can be blamed on Kodak itself?
I SEEM to remember Mr. Harris laying most of the blame on the fact that they were attempting to convert the nitrates to CRI in large batches on a very compressed time frame and weren't necessarily as fastidious as they should have been. The notion of converting three strip negatives to Color Reversal Internegatives for future printing (since dye transfer was expiring) wasn't necessarily a bad idea in and of itself (if you take out the part where they threw the old negatives AWAY, that is!) and Mr. Harris has always said that it's possible to get great results out of it and some Fox titles are better than others.
Does that ring any bells? I didn't make that whole thing up, right? Lol.
You didn’t make it up.
Other than the obvious overriding concern, money money money by the pound (to quote the first Disney hybrid that missed the window to be printed this way), what on Earth possessed Technicolor to get rid of dye transfer printing? After that, it became just another lab, but one with a glorious reputation.
And then, the thousands of Delaware bred peacocks that gave their lives toward the creation of printing dyes.