A Few Words About A few words about...™ For a Few Dollars More - in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

[Jordan Krug]

• On page 1/10: total length of the movie according to the production Company PEA: 3.600 meters. Length actually measured by the board: 3613 meters.

Using Kodak's calculator at 24fps = 131.42 Minutes. Convert to 23.976 to match the Kino disc (.1 percent slower) = 131.54 sec

New master from Kino at 23.976 = 1:31:34

German Blu ray at 23.976 = 1:32:21 (subtracting long Tobis logo at front but counting MGM logo).

A friend reminded me there are photos of the FAFDM U.A. Continuity script cover from previous auction sales and it gives us more information (I wish I had access to the full document!):

Firstly, this was prepared In October 1966 and the film wasn't released until May 1967.

Secondly the running time is nearly identical to the Italian length:

Italian cut as submitted: 131:42 (24fps)
U.A. cut as notated on sheet: 131:40 (24fps)

It is my belief that this continuity script is for the original uncut version, BEFORE U.A. made further cuts in the next 7 months. It is my belief that this supports my claim that U.A. started with a completely dubbed english version before they started chopping out material (the script states all the English dubbing was completed in Italy). This claim is supported by the existence of the uncut version on home video from 1982-1991 in both Italy and the U.S., and the dvd feature on the 1997 disc.

I don't know if this uncut version was ever shown in North America during the original release period, (not likely?).

 

[Jordan Krug]

Per the negative conformation, shots not exposed to the matrices, do not necessarily mean they were deleted from the OCN

I'm sorry, again, I don't have the extensive background in this process that you do, can I humbly ask you to explain this further?

 

[Robert Harris]

I'm sorry, again, I don't have the extensive background in this process that you do, can I humbly ask you to explain this further?

Printing matrices were produced from what was termed a single strand auto-select negative, which means that multiple versions could be produced from a single negative source, ie. domestic, foreign, censored, uncensored, long short, etc.

 

[David Norman]

A friend reminded me there are photos of the FAFDM U.A. Continuity script cover from previous auction sales and it gives us more information (I wish I had access to the full document!):

View attachment 57057

Firstly, this was prepared In October 1966 and the film wasn't released until May 1967.

Secondly the running time is nearly identical to the Italian length:

Italian cut as submitted: 131:42 (24fps)
U.A. cut as notated on sheet: 131:40 (24fps)

It is my belief that this continuity script is for the original uncut version, BEFORE U.A. made further cuts in the next 7 months. It is my belief that this supports my claim that U.A. started with a completely dubbed english version before they started chopping out material (the script states all the English dubbing was completed in Italy). This claim is supported by the existence of the uncut version on home video from 1982-1991 in both Italy and the U.S., and the dvd feature on the 1997 disc.

I don't know if this uncut version was ever shown in the North America during the original release period, (not likely?).

Now closer to an answer I can't find is all the details of individual scene issues.
What was the exact runtime of the 1967 US premiere

 

[Robert Harris]

Now closer to an answer I can't find is all the details of individual scene issues.
What was the exact runtime of the 1967 US premiere

Have you checked the Herrick Library?

 

[Jordan Krug]

Now closer to an answer I can't find is all the details of individual scene issues.
What was the exact runtime of the 1967 US premiere

A guess can be had by looking at the exact runtime of the 91 laserdisc (which I believe to be sourced from a cut 67 U.S. release print.) However I'll have to do some math since it was encoded at 29.97....let me get back to you.

 

[PMF]

Oh, hilarity at the "other place." Caps from capsaholic have been posted and now they "experts" are now crying "slathered in DNR" about this transfer.[...]

Caps and Caps-a-holic are our only hope towards breaking the Leone Code.
But, seriously, I wonder if Ennio Marconi or his archives still has notes concerning any of the music cues that might be connected to these cuts of discussion; otherwise, someone may have to directly call Clint.

 

[Paul Penna]

Judged strictly as images in the abstract, the Capsaholic grabs from the German “Dollars” that some people Over There are raving about look horrible.

 

[Jordan Krug]

A copy of the Fafdm continuity script is in the Yale archives and accessible to the public. Anybody here from Connecticut?

https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/11/archival_objects/453738

I might give them a call and see if they can look at a couple specific pages for me.

 

[PMF]

A copy of the Fafdm continuity script is in the Yale archives and accessible to the public. Anybody here from Connecticut?

https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/11/archival_objects/453738

I might give them a call and see if they can look at a couple specific pages for me.

It is important to note that this Archive at Yale involves 190 boxes.
So whomever takes on the task should have some serious time set aside.
But, once again, if no answers are uncovered at Yale;
don't rule out Marconi's hand-written musical cues;
which would be an altogether different archive or source.

 

[bujaki]

It is important to note that this Archive at Yale involves 190 boxes.
So whomever takes on the task should have some serious time set aside.
But, once again, if no answers are uncovered at Yale;
don't rule out Marconi's hand-written musical cues;
which would be an altogether different archive or source.

Morricone, not Marconi.

 

[PMF]

Morricone, not Marconi.

Damn, the spell check seemed wrong to me, too;
but, then again, I skipped breakfast and am mysteriously craving a cheese and macaroni lunch.

 

[David Norman]

Have you checked the Herrick Library?

I'm going to guess the answer is no.

I barely have access to a small town 4hr/day 3 day per week public library with 4 DVDs and 30 VHS tapes -- none of them Leone and 1/2 of those weren't functional the last time I looked.

I swear at one point I had all of them on LD, but those seem to be items I got rid of in one of the purges.
The specs just say 130 minutes

 

[haineshisway]

Thanks for pointing this out, just had a look at the caps-a-holic caps and I will pass.

As for the caps I have two of the other versions that are captured on caps-a-holic (Italian and German) and their caps are spot-on. Indeed not much grain to be seen on the caps of the Kino version so why shoot the messenger when it was Kino who decided to use grain reduction/DNR.

I'm afraid to state the obvious here, but you don't know what anyone did or did not do. Read Billy Batson's fine post about labs and grain. And again, basing decisions on caps anywhere is, well, just get that great-looking German disc then (it's not great-looking - I have it and the MGM - the Kino is great looking).

 

[B-ROLL]

Damn, the spell check seemed wrong to me, too;
but, then again, I skipped breakfast and am mysteriously craving a cheese and macaroni lunch.

But can you do the Macarena while eating Macaroni - listening to Morricone ?

 

[ScottJH]

Judged strictly as images in the abstract, the Capsaholic grabs from the German “Dollars” that some people Over There are raving about look horrible.

I have the German release and it looks over-sharpened to me. I look foward to getting the Kino release.

 

[Mysto]

But can you do the Macarena while eating Macaroni - listening to Morricone ?

I don't know whether to give you a like or throw stuff

 

[OliverK]

I'm afraid to state the obvious here, but you don't know what anyone did or did not do. Read Billy Batson's fine post about labs and grain. And again, basing decisions on caps anywhere is, well, just get that great-looking German disc then (it's not great-looking - I have it and the MGM - the Kino is great looking).

No of course I do not know who did what. But Kino released what they released and it has the least visible grain of all releases of this movie, similar as for the other two Dollar movies from Kino so no big surprise there.

As for the German Blu-ray disc no need to buy it as I already own it and indeed it is not that great nor is the Italian disc some kind of revelation or the MGM version. But to me with the information I have now is not a convincing upgrade with regard to detail, textures or completeness so unless somebody buys it and I can have a peek myself to convince me otherwise I will not buy it, that's all.

 

[OliverK]

I have the German release and it looks over-sharpened to me. I look foward to getting the Kino release.

It IS oversharpened unfortunately but if you look at the Kino it has its own issues and does not look that pretty either:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=354&y=105&d1=13037&d2=9510&s1=129992&s2=92008&l=0&i=9&go=1

 

[haineshisway]

Okay, I'm afraid I went down the rabbit hole, but I do like to speak from a position of knowledge. I went to this caps-a-holic site and looked at the comparison to the German blu-ray. Whatever one thinks of the German Blu-ray (and I don't think much), anyone, ANYONE who thinks those sorry caps of the Kino resemble in any way, shape, or form anything on view in that Blu-ray is living in some universe I never want to live in. You'd think the entire transfer was severely out of focus based on what they have there, those sorry caps. I don't want to hear "but they were taken directly from the Blu-ray" because while that may be technically accurate, what's on view is anything BUT what's on the Blu-ray. What a joke. I'm glad that some are guided by caps, thrilled they make all their decisions based on them. I'll just get the Blu-rays of films I like and use my eyeballs to judge. I'm no arbitrary defended of Kino - they've put out some fine transfers, and believe me they've put out some real dogs. This is not one of the dogs, this is, as Mr. Harris states at the beginning of the thread, a really good transfer.

I'm not looking for a response or trying to goad anyone into making one, but this is so obvious it's not even funny. But what's REALLY funny is that even people who have problems with whatever cut this is or the sound or whatever, have ALL unanimously PRAISED the actual transfer's visual quality. Then suddenly these hideous caps appear and that is supplanted by a bunch of people saying it's slathered in DNR and that becomes the mantra, and not ONE of those people have seen it, not to mention that not one of those people, those experts, have ever seen this film on a movie theater screen, let alone during its original release. No more rabbit hole for me because this comparison is the nail in the coffin of taking any caps seriously anywhere.