A Few Words About A few words about...™ Cleopatra (1963) - U.S. Release -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[David_B_K]

An interesting drama on the BBC last night - Burton and Taylor, starring Dominic West and Helena Bonham Carter as the two stars. The drama covered the relatively short period in 1983 when the pair were starring on Broadway in Noel Coward's Private Lives. Apart from the fact that West and Bonham Carter looked nothing like the people they were playing (West looked more like Peter Finch; Bonham Carter more like Bette Davis in Baby Jane), this was quite a touching and always sad drama with Burton emerging as a brilliant, dedicated and wholly professional actor and Taylor emerging as a dissolute bitch. There was some stylish production values as well - shot in 2.35:1, the recreation of the stage show and the audience reaction was quite brilliant.

There was also a documentary about Burton's life as seen through his own diaries, and a repeat of a 13 year-old Omnibus doco about Elizabeth. Showing tonight on the BBC is the documentary from the DVD: Cleopatra, The Film That Changed Hollywood..

I should think Burton would have been portrayed as at least a little dissolute after his years of alcoholism. He would be dead within a year of the events depicted in the film, looking frail and old while only 58 years old.

Was the documentary on Burton old as well? I remember seeing a fascinating one on Burton over a decade ago that was based on Melvyn Bragg's bio (Bragg may have made the doc as well). I'd love to see it again. The Bragg bio contained many snippets of Burton's diaries and I seem to remember the doc doing so as well. It's been quite a while since i read the book, and I seem to remember Burton not being happy with Liz in Private Lives.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

The Burton documentary was from last year, released to coincide with the publication of his diaries.
I wasn't sure what to expect, but I was pleasantly surprised.

I thought Helena Bonham Carter did a good job as Elizabeth. Sure, she didn't look anything like her (she admitted as much in interviews) but she did a good job of capturing her essence. It was a visually stunning film, especially the scenes filmed before the live audience watching "Private Lives". I enjoyed Ivory's script(his inclusion of Elizabeth's parrot Alvin made me smile), although there were certain things that didn't ring true. One thing I found strange: Ivory didn't include Elizabeth's engagement to Victor Luna, which was hastily announced as retaliation to Burton's marriage to Sally Hay. Maybe he was being merciful. Elizabeth was a mess during this time--about to enter Betty Ford for the first time--and needed all the help she could get to appear likable.

The final scenes are very touching and sympathetic. These moments managed to really redeem Elizabeth's character and end the film on a positive note.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

I'm sure we all noticed the howler in the Burton/Taylor. He describes meeting her on the first day of Cleopatra - in Hollywood. My guess is that it wasn't the writer's mistake but a case of using the take with the actor's mistake.

 

[AdrianTurner]

Yes, I did notice that blooper. But later on they talk about being in Rome and goingout for a fettucine alla fredo.

As for Burton not being d issolute, he drank TABs throughout and was always resisting Taylor's invitations to get totally drunk.

 

[Nick*Z]

Cleopatra is an acquired taste. It isn't for everyone - particularly the second act that becomes hopelessly mired in an episodic romance between weak willed Marc Antony and the rather shrewish Queen of the Nile. The Taylor/Burton sparks off screen have never seemed to generate as much crackle in the movie. I'm not exactly certain why this is, but there's no romance...well...to the romance.

Without Rex Harrison's formidable performance the movie lumbers along. While most epics are shorter after the entr'acte, presumably so the tushy won't fall asleep too much after everyone's returned from their much needed bathroom break and refill of condiments, Cleo's last act is as long as the first half. That's a mistake, but one Mankiewicz probably felt obligated to oblige since the movie's main drawing ticket, at least then, was the Burton/Taylor powwow behind the scenes. If anything, I thought the documentary "Cleopatra: The Film That Changed Hollywood" was better than the movie.

Like so many - I wanted to absolutely LOVE it and didn't. I don't hate it, however. It just isn't one of the road shows that I visit with the same frequency as say, Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandments, Quo Vadis, The Guns of Navarone, Mutiny on the Bounty, Hello Dolly!, My Fair Lady, West Side Story or even Zulu.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

I've watched part one about 10x more often than part two. It's almost like the sequel that isn't as good but it's all one film. The very end though is great and I'll often recall the final words:"Was this well done of your lady?""Extremely well, as befitting the last of so many noble rulers".

 

[Johnny Angell]

Cleopatra is an acquired taste. It isn't for everyone - particularly the second act that becomes hopelessly mired in an episodic romance between weak willed Marc Antony and the rather shrewish Queen of the Nile. The Taylor/Burton sparks off screen have never seemed to generate as much crackle in the movie. I'm not exactly certain why this is, but there's no romance...well...to the romance.

I think you answered your own question as to why there's no romance...week willed Antony and shrewish Cleo. Every time I've watched the second half of the movie, I find myself telling Antony to "grow a pair." Jeez, what a mamma's boy.

 

[OliverK]

The last three posts capture oh so well what I think of Cleopatra - a really good first half and an almost unbearable second half with Burton/ Marc Anthony as a whining loser who is completely overpowered by Taylors Cleopatra.If they find more footage of the first half I suggest to turn it into two separate movies the way it was suggested at some point. I doubt the second movie would see much use from me!

 

[ROclockCK]

But isn't this imbalance built into the Caesar & Cleopatra + Anthony & Cleopatra meta story...what makes it epic, and in its totality, such a tragedy?

Arguably, all of the principals here get what they want most in life, and yet because of their individual 'blind spots' still die unfulfilled...

 

[Douglas Monce]

It's too bad Fox decided only to capitalize on Burton and Taylor's affair by releasing it as one film. Wouldn't the studio have been able to generate more income had they released it as two films?

Also, my question regarding the presence of directional dialogue on the BD has still not been answered. Is it there? Or is it gone?

The studio was literally closed. There were two films being made, Cleopatra, and The Longest Day, both in post production. The studio needed cash NOW, which is why Cleopatra was released as one 4 hour movie. The suggestion had been made to rush The Longest Day into release, but it was Darryl Zanuck's baby, and he wasn't about to compromise it for boat anchor (financially speaking) that Cleopatra was. Particularly considering it was approved by the people who had ousted him originally, and were now coming crawling back to him to save the studio.

Doug

 

[OliverK]

But isn't this imbalance built into the Caesar & Cleopatra + Anthony & Cleopatra meta story...what makes it epic, and in its totality, such a tragedy?

I still think that the imbalance in the second half between the two main protagonist des not work in the movies favor. The ending is tragic anyway but Marc Anthony does not have to be such a weakling to make it work.

Arguably, all of the principals here get what they want most in life, and yet because of their individual 'blind spots' still die unfulfilled...

Up to some point they do until they all realize they went too far and/or in the wrong direction but then it is too late for all of them.

 

[Johnny Angell]

To follow up on Oliver's post, yes it is a tragedy, but couldn't the second half been a story of a couple who reached too far? Antony, as portrayed, has the arms of a t-rex, so he could only reach a foot or two. Maybe it's historically accurate, but couldn't Cleo been less of a bitch?

When I watch the second half, I keep thinking, this guy is the best and the brightest of Rome? Really?

 

[RolandL]

The studio was literally closed. There were two films being made, Cleopatra, and The Longest Day, both in post production. The studio needed cash NOW, which is why Cleopatra was released as one 4 hour movie. The suggestion had been made to rush The Longest Day into release, but it was Darryl Zanuck's baby, and he wasn't about to compromise it for boat anchor (financially speaking) that Cleopatra was. Particularly considering it was approved by the people who had ousted him originally, and were now coming crawling back to him to save the studio.

Doug

Something's Got to Give was also in production till Monroe died.

 

[Doug Otte]

I've realized that I don't care for Mankiewicz's films. I appreciate the literate dialogue, and the wonderful acting, but for some reason his movies bore me. With Cleopatra, the sumptuous visuals kept me going, but I'm not motivated to watch it again.

I've watched Eve twice now, and could barely make it to the end.

I was going to order the Three Letters BD, but now I'll try to watch it beforehand.

Strangely, I enjoy other films similar to Mank's; maybe I just need a bit more visual stimulation than his movies provide.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Something's Got to Give was also in production till Monroe died.

I'm under the impression that production of Something's Got To Give was halted as Monroe was fired prior to her death.

 

[David_B_K]

But isn't this imbalance built into the Caesar & Cleopatra + Anthony & Cleopatra meta story...what makes it epic, and in its totality, such a tragedy?

Arguably, all of the principals here get what they want most in life, and yet because of their individual 'blind spots' still die unfulfilled...

I think you are correct that the film was going to suffer in the second half after being deprived of the character of Caesar. The same thing happens if you read a straigtforward historical account of the story. I think the problem is that part two is long and rather slow. I last saw it a few months ago in a theater during its 50-year anniversary showing. My wife was with me, and she has never really cared for the film, at least, not the 2nd half. I knew it was going to feel long, but as I sat there, I remembered thinking "wow, we're already at the battle of Actium; this thing is moving faster than I remembered".

I was wrong. The rest of the film after the battle is when the film really slows down. The problem is that the climax of the story had already been reached with the battle. The rest of the film is like watching someone die slowly after having been dealt a mortal blow. I stated pages ago that I thought Manciewicz over-wrote the film and strove for a pseudo-Shakespearian quality. So, he kept a lot of stuff that might have been interesting on the stage, but was less so on the screen. IMO, some tightening was needed in the second half to wrap up the story. We already know the ending after the battle; but we have to endure many scenes before the main characters actually die.

 

[AdrianTurner]

I've realized that I don't care for Mankiewicz's films. I appreciate the literate dialogue, and the wonderful acting, but for some reason his movies bore me. With Cleopatra, the sumptuous visuals kept me going, but I'm not motivated to watch it again.

I've watched Eve twice now, and could barely make it to the end.

I was going to order the Three Letters BD, but now I'll try to watch it beforehand.

Strangely, I enjoy other films similar to Mank's; maybe I just need a bit more visual stimulation than his movies provide.

I totally agree. I've never been able to sit through All About Eve and just wish I was watching Sunset Blvd or In A Lonely Place instead. His flms are just a knot of words in my view. However, I was fortunate to spend a week with him and his wife in London and he - along with Billy Wilder and Richard Brooks - had the best store of Hollywood stories I've ever had the pleasure to listen to.

About the second part of Cleopatra. It's true that its dramatically flawed yet it's also quite a desolate portrait of crushed ego and dashed ideals - it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy as far as Burton is concerned, the brightest of men turned into a dissolute self-loathing failure.

The whole Rome/Cleo affair was brilliantly handled in the miniseries Rome and also, I hazard, by Amanda Barrie and Sid James.

 

[RolandL]

I'm under the impression that production of Something's Got To Give was halted as Monroe was fired prior to her death.

Yes, Monroe was fired and Lee Remick was going to replace her. But Dean Martin would only do the film with Monroe. Monroe was re-hired for more money. Before filming resumed Monroe died.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Yes, Monroe was fired and Lee Remick was going to replace her. But Dean Martin would only do the film with Monroe. Monroe was re-hired for more money. Before filming resumed Monroe died.

Didn't know that...too bad all around as Monroe was at the top of her 'game' at that time. Lee Remick was also great in her own way...

 

[OliverK]

Regarding all about Eve - I would rather watch that one another time than to ever have to suffer again through Mankiewicz's version of Julius Caesar which I found horribly boring with no filmic qualities whatsoever. In comparison Cleopatra is an exciting actioner where the time flies right until the end.