A Few Words About A few words about...™ Cleopatra (1963) - U.S. Release -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[ahollis]

I hate to point this out, but isn't a Blu-ray of Mankiewicz's "Cleopatra" all-too-much ado about nothing? The film is a huge elephantine bomb in spite of its great music score by Alex North. It's an awful film.Restoration of this turkey? Isn't this going too far? (I mean, before "Khartoum" or Vidor's "The Crowd"?????)

Well Khartoum was not even in the top 25 top grossing films of 1966 so not sure your analogy is correct, only personal opinion

 

[Rob_Ray]

Cleopatra is one of the most unjustly maligned movies of all time. While perhaps not the best epic of the sixties, it does have a supremely literate script, a stellar cast, and, for all the money wasted on false starts and Taylor's illnesses, it still looks like the most opulent movie ever. I would give four stars to the first half up to Caesar's death, though the second half pales by comparison. Far from being a bomb, it was the top grosser of its year, though the gargantuan budget kept it in the red until its sale to TV. I think it's far more popular than Khartoum. And both Khartoum and The Crowd are owned by other studios, so its choice as a restoration project over the others is moot anyway.

 

[Doug Otte]

I watched the first half last weekend, and was totally engrossed. It had a thoughtful, literate script with excellent performances. Even if it lacked those characteristics, it was so sumptuously beautiful in every single shot (cinematography, set design, costumes, score etc. etc.) that one could conceivably ignore the story and simply marvel its beauty.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

And the issue is that the restoration would truly IMPROVE the film. Though the first half I agree is a 4 star work.

 

[CraigF]

Hmmm...I have little tolerance for crappy films, and zero for crappy ones this long (just to say I saw it?), and I thought this one was pretty good. I split it over two evenings, as I get fidgety after a few hours, don't like sitting for too long; this may have raised my opinion of the film compared to some who watched it all at once. I didn't even find the second half boring, though I much much preferred the interaction between Taylor and Harrison than that between her and Burton. Kind of OT: Cleopatra's ship was too ridiculous even in the context of this beautiful fantasy.

 

[David_B_K]

Posted by CraigF: OT: Cleopatra's ship was too ridiculous even in the context of this beautiful fantasy.

I have no doubt that Mankiewicz was attempting some sort of visual equivalent to Enobarbus' description of the ship from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra:


Enobarbus: I will tell you.
The barge she sat in, like a burnished throne,
Burned on the water. The poop was beaten gold,
Purple the sails, and so perfumèd that
The winds were lovesick with them. The oars were silver,
Which to the tune of flutes kept stroke, and made
The water which they beat to follow faster,
As amorous of their strokes. For her own person,
It beggared all description: she did lie
In her pavilion—cloth-of-gold, of tissue—
O’erpicturing that Venus where we see
The fancy outwork nature. On each side her
Stood pretty dimpled boys, like smiling Cupids,
With divers-colored fans, whose wind did seem
To glow the delicate cheeks which they did cool,
And what they undid did.

Agrippa: Oh, rare for Antony!

Enobarbus: Her gentlewomen, like the Nereides,
So many mermaids, tended her i’ th’ eyes,
And made their bends adornings. At the helm
A seeming mermaid steers. The silken tackle
Swell with the touches of those flower-soft hands
That yarely frame the office. From the barge
A strange invisible perfume hits the sense
Of the adjacent wharfs. The city cast
Her people out upon her, and Antony,
Enthroned i’ th’ marketplace, did sit alone,
Whistling to th’ air, which, but for vacancy,
Had gone to gaze on Cleopatra too
And made a gap in nature.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I think Mankiewicz strove for a Shakespearean grandeur in the dialog he was writing. I think he was equally inspired to visualize Enobarbus' speech.

 

[classicmovieguy]

It's an urban myth that the film was a "bomb" - it made quite a lot of money for Fox.

 

[Douglas R]

It's an urban myth that the film was a "bomb" - it made quite a lot of money for Fox.

It's not an urban myth. It was widely reported at the time, following the general release, that the film made a huge loss for Fox. It may have made substantial money at the box office but if the takings don't cover the film costs then it's a financial failure..

 

[Moe Dickstein]

It broke even with the TV sale. On the other hand the films budget included millions of dollars that weren't spent on the film at all, all Fox overhead for a year was charged to the budget and an entire aborted version was also charged. If you just factor in the amount that Mankiewicz himself spent for the film I would imagine it broke even on original release.

 

[Rob_Ray]

And whether it made money, lost money or broke even, the fact remains that it wasn't a "bomb" which, to me, means hardly anyone bought tickets.

 

[CraigF]

^ I think we have a generation gap. To us old farts, "bomb" means a dismal failure, whereas to those more hip, "bomb" means a smash hit. At least I'm guessing that from the context of your comment...

David_B_K: yes, the exterior of Cleopatra's ship does seem close to that description. I was thinking more of the interior, which had huge rooms and lots of marble flooring etc.; it was presented as much larger than the exterior of the ship would allow.

Only $40M or $60M etc.? Look at the relative rubbish they turn out nowadays for many times that. To my eye, even "fake" construction and costuming materials look far better than any CGI....for now. Same with stunts.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Craig, it was one of the top grossing films of 1963, what is your definition of bomb?

 

[CraigF]

^ I was a kid when Cleopatra came out, so my definition of "bomb" is "a dismal failure".

I am not the one who used the term originally here, I was just commenting on how one guy seemed to interpret the meaning as used by the "old farts" here. He said: it wasn't a bomb means hardly anyone bought tickets. Whereas I would say: it wasn't a bomb means lots of people bought tickets.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Right so we all agree Cleo wasn't a bomb.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Right so we all agree Cleo wasn't a bomb.

Right. Not "a bomb."

But, "the bomb."

 

[JPCinema]

A "bomb" could not play that many weeks to empty theaters. CLEOPATRA did finally turn a profit as well.

[*]06.12.1963 … New York, NY – Rivoli [64 weeks]
[*]06.19.1963 … Los Angeles, CA – Pantages [72 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Atlanta, GA – Roxy [30 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Baltimore, MD – Hippodrome [35 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Boston, MA – Music Hall [20 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Buffalo, NY – Center [26 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Calgary, AB – Capitol [14 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Charlotte, NC – Dilworth [28 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Chicago, IL – State-Lake [32 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Cincinnati, OH – Grand [42 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Cleveland, OH – Ohio [26 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Dallas, TX – Tower [26 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Denver, CO – Denham [39 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Des Moines, IA – Ingersoll [28 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Detroit, MI – United Artists [52 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Edmonton, AB – Paramount [14 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Fort Worth, TX – Palace [? weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Houston, TX – Tower [25 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Indianapolis, IN – Lyric [31 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Louisville, KY – Penthouse [23 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Memphis, TN – Crosstown [29 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Miami Beach, FL – Lincoln [74 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Minneapolis, MN – Century [48 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Montreal, QC – Alouette [35 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Omaha, NE – Astro [26 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Philadelphia, PA – Stanley [41 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Phoenix, AZ – Paramount [33 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Pittsburgh, PA – Penn [26 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Portland, OR – Paramount [37 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Richmond, VA – Willow Lawn [29 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … St. Louis, MO – Ambassador [24 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Salt Lake City, UT – Centre [26 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … San Antonio, TX – Broadway [19 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … San Diego, CA – Capri [42 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … San Francisco, CA – Alexandria [56 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Toronto, ON – University [39 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Vancouver, BC – Stanley [42 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Washington, DC – Warner [40 weeks]
[*]06.26.1963 … Winnipeg, MB – Metropolitan [18 weeks]
[/list]

[*]07.02.1963 … Milwaukee, WI – Strand [48 weeks]
[*]07.03.1963 … Beaumont, TX – Liberty [? weeks]
[/list]

[*]08.02.1963 … Providence, RI – Elmwood [27 weeks]
[*]08.07.1963 … Honolulu, HI – Kuhio [19 weeks]
[*]08.07.1963 … Rochester, NY – Riviera [27 weeks]
[*]08.07.1963 … Syracuse (DeWitt), NY – Shoppingtown [20 weeks]
[/list]

[*]10.03.1963 … Ottawa, ON – Nelson [15 weeks]
[*]10.10.1963 … Albuquerque, NM – Sunshine [15 weeks]
[*]10.24.1963 … Nashville, TN – Crescent [? weeks]
[/list]

[*]11.13.1963 … Kansas City, MO – Capri [23 weeks]
[*]11.13.1963 … Oklahoma City, OK – Tower [? weeks]
[*]11.15.1963 … Boston, MA – Gary [cont. from Music Hall, 12 (32) weeks]
[/list]

[*]12.25.1963 … Jacksonville, FL – Cedar Hills [13 weeks]
[*]12.25.1963 … New Haven, CT – Whalley [19 weeks]
[*]12.25.1963 … Norfolk, VA – Riverview [? weeks]
[*]12.25.1963 … Toledo, OH – Princess 70 [16 weeks]
[/list]

[*]01.22.1964 … Akron (Cuyahoga Falls), OH – Falls [9 weeks]
[*]01.24.1964 … Youngstown, OH – State [16 weeks]
[/list]

[*]05.27.1964 … Hicksville, NY – Twin North [? weeks]
[/list]

[*]06.19.1964 … Upper Montclair, NJ – Bellevue [10 weeks]
[/list]
The first international roadshow booking of Cleopatra commenced July 31, 1963, at the Dominion in London.
References: This article was compiled by referencing regional newspaper promotion and various articles inBoxoffice and Variety.

 

[Ruz-El]

A "bomb" could not play that many weeks to empty theaters. CLEOPATRA did finally turn a profit as well.

[*]
[*]06.26.1963 … Edmonton, AB – Paramount [14 weeks]
[/list]

My dad took my mum to a showing during this run that resulted in them eventually getting married and having me. So yeah, the films a bomb!

 

[ROclockCK]

What's all this talk about Cleopatra "bombing" anyway? Adjusted for inflation, it's still #40 on the all time Domestic Boxoffice list. That's not counting International. Not counting TV, Cable, and Streaming. And not counting multiple releases in every home video format to date.

This movie made scads of money...well...eventually.

 

[Ruz-El]

What's all this talk about Cleopatra "bombing" anyway? Adjusted for inflation, it's still #40 on the all time Domestic Boxoffice list. That's not counting International. Not counting TV, Cable, and Streaming. And not counting multiple releases in every home video format to date.

This movie made scads of money...well...eventually.

It's the same nonsense that had the movie "John Carter" labeled as terrible prior to release, when actually it's really quite good. Some films get hit with stink and never get the smell off.

 

[JoshZ]

What's all this talk about Cleopatra "bombing" anyway? Adjusted for inflation, it's still #40 on the all time Domestic Boxoffice list. That's not counting International. Not counting TV, Cable, and Streaming. And not counting multiple releases in every home video format to date.

This movie made scads of money...well...eventually.

Regardless of whether it eventually turned a profit, the movie certainly cultivated a reputation for being a massive failure. For years and years afterwards, whenever anyone would bring up the topic of biggest movie flops, Cleopatra was the immediate go-to example. At least until Heaven's Gate came along.

In Hollywood, perception is more important than reality, and everyone's perception was that Cleopatra was a bomb.