A Few Words About A few words about...™ Batman/Returns/Forever/Robin -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

When it says not to expect 4K from a 35mm that was scanned and finished in 4K, "because you won't find it."

Possibly, I can explain the point this way.

I’ll be reviewing the new 4k of The Natural, exquisitely, and occasionally ethereally photographed by Caleb Deschanel. Mr. Crisp, and his team at Columbia, have created a perfect 4k Blu-ray.

But that doesn’t mean that every shot is filled with high frequency detail. Some is. Much is not. But we end up with an extremely natural, velvety image with perfectly rendered grain, and a beautiful palette of lights and darks.

The difference, at least to my eye, is that The Natural is basically a practical film, while the Batman productions, as authentic as they are on 4k, have layers of effects, which must be blended into the overall image.

They’re different.

HDR aside, the 4k of Natural seems to work better at that resolution, as we’re reading the content of the negative, while the Batman films (again, as nicely as they’ve been handled)seem better suited to a format that allows less peering into the details of the negative.

As a capture, and playback process, 4k is heaven sent for large chip, 65mm, VVLA, and TLA productions, where it can shine. Most viewers, who are properly set up, can find rapture in the HDR of 4k releases, not based upon large format. But the reality is that the majority of those releases won’t look much different from an HD version of the same film, if HDR were offered, when viewed from a normal seating distance.

I have no argument with the Batman films, or the way that they have been brought to 4k. The older Blu releases were produced well, for the period in which they were made, but I believe that a new HD image harvest would stand up nicely against 4k, if HDR was available.

This based upon the amount of high frequency information that I’m seeing.

 

[Brian Kidd]

When it says not to expect 4K from a 35mm that was scanned and finished in 4K, "because you won't find it."

SD material is often upscaled to 1080p for Blu-ray. Does that mean that you're suddenly going to see more detail in the image? No. You can scan 35mm in 8K, too. It still won't add any more image detail than is present on the original film.

 

[moviebuff75]

I am sticking with the blurays for these. I believe they are fine.

 

[moviebuff75]

I am curious though. Theatrical prints of movies like GREASE. Would they contain the same amount of detail as 4K?

 

[Dave Scarpa]

Individual or Box set I'm waiting on a price Drop I don't even have the nolan films yet

 

[Robert Harris]

I am curious though. Theatrical prints of movies like GREASE. Would they contain the same amount of detail as 4K?

No

 

[AcesHighStudios]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. I'm still a bit confused I guess. I know that "film" doesn't have a resolution, per se, but if we considered it in terms of resolution, 35mm film contains more information than 4K video, which is a far cry from comparing SD being upgraded to HD (as someone else mentioned). I get that source materials and film stock, lighting, etc., can affect how much information can be captured, but Grease in 4K, as an example, is head and shoulders above a 1080p Blu-ray, and a great deal better than much of what the studios are offering us as "4K," which, of course, often isn't.

 

[Robert Harris]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. I'm still a bit confused I guess. I know that "film" doesn't have a resolution, per se, but if we considered it in terms of resolution, 35mm film contains more information than 4K video, which is a far cry from comparing SD being upgraded to HD (as someone else mentioned). I get that source materials and film stock, lighting, etc., can affect how much information can be captured, but Grease in 4K, as an example, is head and shoulders above a 1080p Blu-ray, and a great deal better than much of what the studios are offering us as "4K," which, of course, often isn't.

35mm, whatever that may be, does not necessarily have a higher resolution than 4k.

But first, one must define the word 35mm.

 

[Osato]

Individual or Box set I'm waiting on a price Drop I don't even have the nolan films yet

Box set. Pick it up in November. Movies are usually cheapest then.

This will be the first set of films I watch in UHd in November. I’m planning on upgrading then.
It’s fantastic that this new set will also include the blu ray discs that have also been updated with the new transfers.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

35mm, whatever that may be, does not necessarily have a higher resolution than 4k.

But first, one must define the word 35mm.

It seems like you would be the guy to do that.

 

[Robert Harris]

It seems like you would be the guy to do that.

Not my job

 

[Worth]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. I'm still a bit confused I guess. I know that "film" doesn't have a resolution, per se, but if we considered it in terms of resolution, 35mm film contains more information than 4K video, which is a far cry from comparing SD being upgraded to HD (as someone else mentioned). I get that source materials and film stock, lighting, etc., can affect how much information can be captured, but Grease in 4K, as an example, is head and shoulders above a 1080p Blu-ray, and a great deal better than much of what the studios are offering us as "4K," which, of course, often isn't.

While there's no absolute consensus, and it of course varies depending on the film stock, lenses, lighting conditions etc, my understanding is that a 35mm negative has between 3-4K of real image detail, so scanning at 4K should capture everything that's there and then some.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

Not my job

Oh, OK. Everything else you talk about isn't your "job" either. Hilarious!!!

 

[Robert Harris]

Oh, OK. Everything else you talk about isn't your "job" either. Hilarious!!!

The reality is that while none of this is my job.

I try to be helpful.

But a serious discussion re the subject above is a multi-day master’s class.

 

[bujaki]

The reality is that while none of this is my job.

I try to be helpful.

But a serious discussion re the subject above is a multi-day master’s class.

And we can only be thankful for your insights while trying to do your real job (which we also appreciate).

 

[AcesHighStudios]

The reality is that while none of this is my job.

I try to be helpful.

But a serious discussion re the subject above is a multi-day master’s class.

OK, I understand that, certainly. Thank you for clarifying. I do always check to see what you have to say about any video before purchasing, and have for many, many years now.

 

[Robert Harris]

Please keep in mind, while discussing film, that like a DVD, Blu-ray, or 4k disc, it too is merely a bucket to hold information

Exposure, lighting, optics, flashing, processing, all come together to create an image, which can be rendered in extremely high resolution, or minimal. Flat, contrasty... nothing is written

Same thing with data.

There are no absolutes.

 

[Osato]

Please keep in mind, while discussing film, that like a DVD, Blu-ray, or 4k disc, it too is merely a bucket to hold information

Exposure, lighting, optics, flashing, processing, all come together to create an image, which can be rendered in extremely high resolution, or minimal. Flat, contrasty... nothing is written

Same thing with data.

There are no absolutes.

However we can agree absolutely that Brent Spiner is Data.

And now back to the Batman discussion...

 

[JoshZ]

With the corrected color grading on Alien, I hoped that perhaps Hollywood's obsession with teal revisionism might finally be waning.

Sigh...

Batman-returns

• JoshZ
• Jun 3, 2019

 

[JoshZ]

Here's the same shot on the prior Blu-ray. I can tell you which one looks more like a movie photographed and color timed in 1992 to me.