1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

UHD Review A few words about...™ Batman/Returns/Forever/Robin -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, May 24, 2019.

  1. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,024
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    Possibly, I can explain the point this way.

    I’ll be reviewing the new 4k of The Natural, exquisitely, and occasionally ethereally photographed by Caleb Deschanel. Mr. Crisp, and his team at Columbia, have created a perfect 4k Blu-ray.

    But that doesn’t mean that every shot is filled with high frequency detail. Some is. Much is not. But we end up with an extremely natural, velvety image with perfectly rendered grain, and a beautiful palette of lights and darks.

    The difference, at least to my eye, is that The Natural is basically a practical film, while the Batman productions, as authentic as they are on 4k, have layers of effects, which must be blended into the overall image.

    They’re different.

    HDR aside, the 4k of Natural seems to work better at that resolution, as we’re reading the content of the negative, while the Batman films (again, as nicely as they’ve been handled)seem better suited to a format that allows less peering into the details of the negative.

    As a capture, and playback process, 4k is heaven sent for large chip, 65mm, VVLA, and TLA productions, where it can shine. Most viewers, who are properly set up, can find rapture in the HDR of 4k releases, not based upon large format. But the reality is that the majority of those releases won’t look much different from an HD version of the same film, if HDR were offered, when viewed from a normal seating distance.

    I have no argument with the Batman films, or the way that they have been brought to 4k. The older Blu releases were produced well, for the period in which they were made, but I believe that a new HD image harvest would stand up nicely against 4k, if HDR was available.

    This based upon the amount of high frequency information that I’m seeing.
     
    Stephen_J_H, PMF, B-ROLL and 2 others like this.
  2. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Cinematographer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    1,083
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    SD material is often upscaled to 1080p for Blu-ray. Does that mean that you're suddenly going to see more detail in the image? No. You can scan 35mm in 8K, too. It still won't add any more image detail than is present on the original film.
     
    Robert Harris likes this.
  3. moviebuff75

    moviebuff75 Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Real Name:
    Eric Scott Richard
    I am sticking with the blurays for these. I believe they are fine.
     
  4. moviebuff75

    moviebuff75 Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Real Name:
    Eric Scott Richard
    I am curious though. Theatrical prints of movies like GREASE. Would they contain the same amount of detail as 4K?
     
  5. Dave Scarpa

    Dave Scarpa Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 1999
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    David Scarpa
    Individual or Box set I'm waiting on a price Drop I don't even have the nolan films yet
     
  6. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,024
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    No
     
    PMF and B-ROLL like this.
  7. AcesHighStudios

    AcesHighStudios Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Real Name:
    Mike Williams
    Thank you, Mr. Harris. I'm still a bit confused I guess. I know that "film" doesn't have a resolution, per se, but if we considered it in terms of resolution, 35mm film contains more information than 4K video, which is a far cry from comparing SD being upgraded to HD (as someone else mentioned). I get that source materials and film stock, lighting, etc., can affect how much information can be captured, but Grease in 4K, as an example, is head and shoulders above a 1080p Blu-ray, and a great deal better than much of what the studios are offering us as "4K," which, of course, often isn't.
     
  8. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,024
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    35mm, whatever that may be, does not necessarily have a higher resolution than 4k.

    But first, one must define the word 35mm.
     
    B-ROLL and nara like this.
  9. Osato

    Osato Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,045
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Box set. Pick it up in November. Movies are usually cheapest then.

    This will be the first set of films I watch in UHd in November. I’m planning on upgrading then.
    It’s fantastic that this new set will also include the blu ray discs that have also been updated with the new transfers.
     
  10. AcesHighStudios

    AcesHighStudios Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Real Name:
    Mike Williams
    It seems like you would be the guy to do that.
     
  11. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,024
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    Not my job
     
    B-ROLL likes this.
  12. Worth

    Worth Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,930
    Likes Received:
    1,935
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Nick Dobbs
    While there's no absolute consensus, and it of course varies depending on the film stock, lenses, lighting conditions etc, my understanding is that a 35mm negative has between 3-4K of real image detail, so scanning at 4K should capture everything that's there and then some.
     
    Josh Steinberg likes this.
  13. AcesHighStudios

    AcesHighStudios Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Real Name:
    Mike Williams
    Oh, OK. Everything else you talk about isn't your "job" either. Hilarious!!!
     
  14. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,024
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    The reality is that while none of this is my job.

    I try to be helpful.

    But a serious discussion re the subject above is a multi-day master’s class.
     
  15. bujaki

    bujaki Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    2,826
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Richardson, TX
    Real Name:
    Jose Ortiz-Marrero
    And we can only be thankful for your insights while trying to do your real job (which we also appreciate).
     
  16. AcesHighStudios

    AcesHighStudios Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Real Name:
    Mike Williams
    OK, I understand that, certainly. Thank you for clarifying. I do always check to see what you have to say about any video before purchasing, and have for many, many years now.
     
  17. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,024
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    Please keep in mind, while discussing film, that like a DVD, Blu-ray, or 4k disc, it too is merely a bucket to hold information

    Exposure, lighting, optics, flashing, processing, all come together to create an image, which can be rendered in extremely high resolution, or minimal. Flat, contrasty... nothing is written

    Same thing with data.

    There are no absolutes.
     
    Stephen_J_H, PMF, B-ROLL and 2 others like this.
  18. Osato

    Osato Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,045
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    However we can agree absolutely that Brent Spiner is Data.

    And now back to the Batman discussion...
     
    B-ROLL and Brian Kidd like this.
  19. JoshZ

    JoshZ Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Boston
    Real Name:
    Joshua Zyber
  20. JoshZ

    JoshZ Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Boston
    Real Name:
    Joshua Zyber
    Here's the same shot on the prior Blu-ray. I can tell you which one looks more like a movie photographed and color timed in 1992 to me.

    batman-returns-bluray.
     

Share This Page