A Few Words About A few words about...™ 1776 -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Dee Zee]

I must confess to never seeing this film. But after the OP I may have to.

 

[Garysb]

When you think of films such as the Garland "A Star Is Born" or the 1937 version of " Lost Horizon" which have complete soundtracks but are still missing film footage, how fortunate that all the cut footage still exists for "1776".

 

[Noel Aguirre]

I will admit that, while I like this film, it's not one I have a love affair with. But it IS one that I will purchase if for no other reason than to support the restoration process and those who pushed, pulled, and carried this one over the finish line to completion. And to hopefully provide a small impetus to keep catalog BD releases alive.

Agreed. I would prefer to repeat watch Lost Horizon from the following year with its camp and historical flop value.

Singing politicians - meh.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Noel, have you seen 1776?

 

[JoeyMc]

Moe, seriously, I want to thank you and the entire team responsible for getting 1776 onto Blu at last! I grew up with the movie version, and it was the first movie soundtrack I ever bought on vinyl with my hard-earned $5.98, haha. No piddling or twiddling here, I'm very excited to get this. I was walking around the Independence Hall and Liberty Bell area in Philly today, humming the music, just adding to the anticipation! Thank you all so much!

 

[Reed Grele]

In the summer of 1968, I was walking around Independence Hall. That was when the Liberty Bell was on display at the rear exit. Just cordoned off. Not behind bullet proof glass, or however they have it today. I reached across the "barrier" and touched it.

 

[Allansfirebird]

I'd not had any interest in seeing this film until I browsed through this thread. Now, I need to get a copy pronto.

 

[Dr Griffin]

In the summer of 1968, I was walking around Independence Hall. That was when the Liberty Bell was on display at the rear exit. Just cordoned off. Not behind bullet proof glass, or however they have it today. I reached across the "barrier" and touched it.

I also had the privilege of touching the famous crack in the Liberty Bell on a school trip in the late sixties. I remember an attendant half heartedly dissuading us from too much fondling - it was a very different time.

 

[Matt Hough]

Me, too, and on July 4, 1965. We stayed a couple of days in Philadelphia on our way to the NY World's Fair that summer.

 

[Charles Smith]

Another toucher here, in the mid-to-late-1950s as a kid, and possibly again in the 1960s. When I was next walking around there in the mid-1980s, I could hardly recognize that entire area for all the changes and, even then, the security measures.

 

[Noel Aguirre]

Noel, have you seen 1776?

I tried to once on DVD and thought it was not very well shot or the film stock was ugly and stopped it. And the music wasn't memorable if I recall. But I have preordered it as I collect musicals and will watch it finally in total. I could be surprised- I finally watched Yentyl after all these years and surprisingly liked that so this could be a revelation as well. Hopefully there's no Ben Franklin dancing a la Scrooge.
I really want Victor/Victoria on bluray.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Glad you'll give it a chance again. The blu ray looks as good as this film can - must remember it's anamorphic lenses of the 70s on slower film stock.

The film becomes far more dramatic in the lighting as it goes on and that's by design and some of the intricate camera moves are incredibly inspiring to me to this day.

Do let us know your thoughts as well, Sean.

I believe you will see Ben do a couple steps but nothing too crazy. It's the sort of piece that is strong enough dramatically that it would work without the songs.

 

[Matt Hough]

Yes, it's been said by more than one theater critic that the book for 1776 is among the finest ever created for the stage.

 

[WilliamMcK]

Noel, Be warned... there are two brief Franklin dance moments... though the first arises very naturally out of the action ("He Plays the Violin"). The second ("The Egg") is such a delightful song, that I don't think it will bother you... There are absolutely no scenes of Franklin dancing down Market Street proclaiming the signing of the Declaration, so you can feel safe on that score!


Seriously though, I have some minor issues with the way the film was shot, but the source material is so strong that it wipes away any cinematic quibbles I have... I really love this piece (and I think of myself as a musical aficionado). I'll be anxious to hear how you feel after viewing the blu-ray... (BTW, I too think the DVD makes the movie look ugly... I am absolutely confident that the blu-ray has more than rectified that!).


EDIT: As Moe points out, the lighting in the film is used for dramatic purposes, it does get dark in the latter stages, but it's always appropriate for the story. It should never look like 40s MGM three-strip technicolor... it would be the wrong "look" for the story.

 

[David_B_K]

I tried to once on DVD and thought it was not very well shot or the film stock was ugly and stopped it. And the music wasn't memorable if I recall. But I have preordered it as I collect musicals and will watch it finally in total. I could be surprised- I finally watched Yentyl after all these years and surprisingly liked that so this could be a revelation as well. Hopefully there's no Ben Franklin dancing a la Scrooge.
I really want Victor/Victoria on bluray.

Noel, I would suggest you try to watch a bit more of it. The music in 1776 is a show-specific score. None of the songs make any sense sung outside the setting of the show, so you will not hear the sort of songs that become "standards".


I used to really love the show/movie, but through the years, I have grown a tad less enthusiastic about it myself. For one, even though Howard Da Silva is the spitting image of Ben, I find him a tad too cutsie-poo at times. And I have never liked the "The Lees of Old Virginia" number. I realize that Ron Holgate won a Tony just for doing that number, but I find it silly and don't care for the melody and Holgate is very cartoonish in the role of Richard Henry Lee.


After the "Lees" number, the film settles down for a fairly long section of introduction characters and congressional debate. This is when the film hits its stride, IMO. All the remaining numbers are tuneful and entertaining, and the film moves to a rather dramatic conclusion.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Seriously though, I have some minor issues with the way the film was shot, but the source material is so strong that it wipes away any cinematic quibbles I have... I really love this piece (and I think of myself as a musical aficionado).

I'll ask. But I doubt there's any answer.


The moment I'm about to describe begins at 2:58 in the YT clip below.


I've always had an issue with a particular moment in the film. In the midst of Lees of Old Virginia, there's a point where Lee, Adams and Franklin are at a tree stump. Adams is sitting and the other two flank him and the stump by standing. In Adams' exasperation, he exclaims, "God help us!" And Franklin, in his inimitable way responds, "Oh, he will, John. He will."


Holgate (Lee) then steps up on the stump! Instead of using a different, wider shot, they remain on the medium three shot and simply tilt up to keep attention focused on Holgate. This has the unfortunate effect of removing all of Franklin from the shot--except his head--and all of Adams from the shot--except the top half of his head. After Franklin gives one last line, there is a slow push in on Holgate. And then Holgate jumps down--completely off screen--and then a wider shot of the trio is established with Holgate sitting alongside Daniels on the stump.


I'm no expert, but I've always been bothered by seeing just the top of Adam's head in that shot.


Every time I see this sequence it ends up taking me out of the film--momentarily--until the fun quickly resumes...

 

[Moe Dickstein]

There's also a little Ben dancing around in Lees and But Mr. Adams. Just a little.


Mike, the shot you mention was probably an attempt to keep to the general plan of doing things in one shot when possible. I can for sure tell you that the stuff in the park was the first stuff Peter ever filmed as a director and I think he would more than agree with your assessment, he's not too happy with most of that scene, in fact he's probably harder on it than any of us would be. Personally the thing I would change would be getting out of that long high crane shot sooner into the medium 3.

 

[haineshisway]

Noel, I would suggest you try to watch a bit more of it. The music in 1776 is a show-specific score. None of the songs make any sense sung outside the setting of the show, so you will not hear the sort of songs that become "standards".


I used to really love the show/movie, but through the years, I have grown a tad less enthusiastic about it myself. For one, even though Howard Da Silva is the spitting image of Ben, I find him a tad too cutsie-poo at times. And I have never liked the "The Lees of Old Virginia" number. I realize that Ron Holgate won a Tony just for doing that number, but I find it silly and don't care for the melody and Holgate is very cartoonish in the role of Richard Henry Lee.


After the "Lees" number, the film settles down for a fairly long section of introduction characters and congressional debate. This is when the film hits its stride, IMO. All the remaining numbers are tuneful and entertaining, and the film moves to a rather dramatic conclusion.

Mr. Hunt knew nothing about film. Therefore he did not reign in Ron Holgate, who merely did what he did on stage, and on stage it was fantastic, that performance. William Daniels was, of course, a seasoned film actor and he knew what to do to make his performance work for the camera without losing his energy and what made him special, same with Da Silva. As to the shots themselves, it's not great cinema and never will be. It's the play that counts and that's what you get and while I don't feel it works very well a a film experience, I'm happy that it's preserved with most of that wonderful Broadway company and that it's true to the source. Could it be a better film had someone who understood film directed that part of it, like Robert Wise and West Side Story? Of course. In the end, does it matter? Not a whit to fans of the show and the film.

 

[Robert Harris]

Another toucher here, in the mid-to-late-1950s as a kid, and possibly again in the 1960s. When I was next walking around there in the mid-1980s, I could hardly recognize that entire area for all the changes and, even then, the security measures.

As did I, in the 50s, as I have family in Philly. A very different time. A kid could spend time with the flight crew in the cockpit of a commercial airliner...


while in flight.


Now, not so much.


RAH

 

[Mike Frezon]

Mike, the shot you mention was probably an attempt to keep to the general plan of doing things in one shot when possible. I can for sure tell you that the stuff in the park was the first stuff Peter ever filmed as a director and I think he would more than agree with your assessment, he's not too happy with most of that scene, in fact he's probably harder on it than any of us would be. Personally the thing I would change would be getting out of that long high crane shot sooner into the medium 3.

Thanks, Ted. That's a tough first shoot. Shooting outdoors and all. The sun was not his friend that day.

There's also a little Ben dancing around in Lees and But Mr. Adams. Just a little.

And, never fear, there are also those scenes where he is confined to his chair with the gout in which he wouldn't think of dancing a gavotte with anyone else in Congress (Mrs. Jefferson, however, might've been able to convince the old man to go a round or two.).