cannon1

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Best that someone attempt to define the words "original mono."
Original mono to me means the complete composite sound track from the original release, presumably from an optical track as opposed to the track which accompanied the original Blu ray, which while containing the redone gunshots at the outset, it also included many restored sounds from the 'original mono', such as the echoing pounding footsteps as Scottie chased Madeline up the tower the first time, that weren't in the stereo reconstructed track of the 1996 restoration...
 

Worth

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Isn't this Vertigo disc the same as the one in the original Hitchcock Masterpiece Collection (Blu ray reg. A), with the redone FX track that much more resembled the original Mono, rather than the original itself ?
I hadn't heard anything about that. Are you saying that the mono track on the blu-ray was a mixdown of the remix? What's on the 4K disc, then?
 

Robert Harris

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Original mono to me means the complete composite sound track from the original release, presumably from an optical track as opposed to the track which accompanied the original Blu ray, which while containing the redone gunshots at the outset, it also included many restored sounds from the 'original mono', such as the echoing pounding footsteps as Scottie chased Madeline up the tower the first time, that weren't in the stereo reconstructed track of the 1996 restoration...
Thank you.

There have been so many discussion of this, that the meaning has a tendency to get lost.

Here's the reality.

The "original mono" mix was derived from multiple layers of magnetic elements, which were (for the domestic release) mixed down to what is known as a three-stripe, a three channel full-coat 35mm mag, that has the final mixes of monaural music, effect and dialogue, each on separate channels, thus allowing a fine tuning to the final composite, which would have been an optical printing negative, used to create the original 35mm prints.

A re-recording, or magnetic x-copy of a positive optical track does not fully reproduce the audio quality of the first generation optical track negative, but might be considered close enough for government work.

c. 1970, Mr. Hitchcock's office, potentially faced with large storage fees, as several of his films were reverting to him from Paramount, sent out a letter of destruction, which basically noted the following:

Destroy all picture and audio elements world-wide, with the exception of the following:

Original camera negative
35mm optical track negative for printing
16mm optical track negative for printing
Separation masters
5 16mm prints
5 35mm prints

Which means that everything else was junked, inclusive of all original audio stems, as well as the original three-stripe from which new optical track negative might have been produced.

During the 1983 re-issue, the 35mm optical track neg was severely damaged, which meant that by 1996, all that remained as a source were used 35mm prints, and a magnetic monaural copy of one of those prints.

Foreign prints all had different levels of music and effects, along with varyingly different Foley recordings and dubbing.

The only original magnetic elements that survived were the original music floor recordings found in Paramount's vaults in 1996, which after consultation with many people involved in the original production of the film, and the Hitchcock family were deemed as the element that should serve as the basis for a new track recording.

There were two different recordings produced at that time, and neither, because of effects added served the purpose that we had planned. Regardless, at that time, the second track, with more muted effects became the studio's choice for distribution.

This was re-worked several years ago, and now far better represents the original intent.

Bottom line is that the latest stereo recording, is of far higher quality, than any other source, remains reasonably true to the original intent, and services the film far better than what we might consider a copy of the original domestic monaural mix, which now a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, inclusive of two optical generations.
 

Colin Jacobson

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thank God
I used to like/defend Bay. I enjoyed "The Rock" and "Armageddon" for what they were.

I liked half of "Pearl Harbor", but after that... not so much.

"The Island" was up and down, and after that, Bay's been pretty weak. I wanted to like the "Transformers" flicks but they were largely bad.

"Pain and Gain" was enjoyable, though. That's the only Bay movie I've genuinely liked since probably "Armageddon"!
 

Colin Jacobson

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Not that I think it should be done, but if you're going to remake a Hitchcock film, The Birds makes the most sense, as it can take advantage of the improvements in special effects technology over the years. It certainly couldn't be any worse than a virtual shot for shot remake of Psycho.
Actually, I would think it'd be more logical to remake one of Hitch's lesser films.

I get your point, but even with superior effects, any "Birds" remake will pale. The 1963 version is a classic.

Seems more logical to go after one of his relative misfires than a justly acclaimed great movie...
 
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Osato

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I watched the birds in 4k streaming on iTunes last night. It looked fantastic. I hadn’t seen the film in many years. I really enjoyed it too.
 

Nelson Au

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Hey guys, last night I tried the 4K disc of Vertigo on my Oppo UDP-205. When I pulled the disc out of the packaging, I did look at the playing surface and it looked ok. But I wiped it down where I touched it using a microfiber cloth. I didn’t use any cleaning fluids except breathing on it. :)

It did not pixelate or lock. I played it from the start through the rooftop chase through the first sequence at Midge’s apartment, then I jumped ahead to the scene at Fort Point when Madeline jumps into the Bay. I watched it from there through to the sequence at Mission San Juan Bautista. So I don’t know if the disc would have pixelated or not had I not wiped it. I just wanted to get rid of the finger prints.

On another topic, since I do not have a 4K capable display yet, some of you guys recommended some tuning I could do to my 4K blu ray player to get the 4K output from my Oppo player to my standard high definition plasma screen for the best image quality. So I went into the settings to the HDR to SDR settings, there were 4 choices. I settled on one after comparing to the regular blu ray of Vertigo. The blu ray, by the way was the older one, not the one in this set. I could not get the image to match. The blu ray was overall brighter. The 4K was darker, but still watchable and colors seemed to go from flesh tones being more saturated to other colors being slightly darker. For example Scotty’s dark suit he wore while at Midge’s apartment at the start was more purple in the blu ray and the 4K was darker, but not loosing detail. Maybe there’s more tweaking I could do if I learn more about the Oppo settings. For now I don’t know if the 4K is looking right. Shoot, I should have compared the 4K and Blu ray during the scenes with the red wall paper at Ernie’s restaurant, maybe next time.

At least the disc plays fine. I have not watched the whole film, but just the parts where others have had consistent lock-ups. Next I have to get my request in for the replacement disc of The Birds.
 

Osato

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My digital copy of the birds in 4k played extremely well last night. Loved seeing the film again. Probably 8+ Years since I last saw it.
 

cda1143

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My Vertigo UHD pixelated and froze at bridge scene. Panny 820. Removed and cleaned it, then it was fine.

I can’t imagine how anyone extracts a disc from theses sleeves without getting prints on the disc.
 

Osato

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My Vertigo UHD pixelated and froze at bridge scene. Panny 820. Removed and cleaned it, then it was fine.

I can’t imagine how anyone extracts a disc from theses sleeves without getting prints on the disc.
glad I went the digital route.
 

B-ROLL

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My Vertigo UHD pixelated and froze at bridge scene. Panny 820. Removed and cleaned it, then it was fine.

I can’t imagine how anyone extracts a disc from theses sleeves without getting prints on the disc.
Cotton lint free gloves. I a pinch, clean many-times washed cotton socks might do ...
 

bujaki

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Cotton lint free gloves. I a pinch, clean many-times washed cotton socks might do ...
That's what I wrote a few posts earlier. I guess nobody read it. DON'T use your fingertips. Use a clean cotton cloth!!! I've been doing this for years in order to remove DVD. BDs, CDs...you name it.
 

murrayThompson

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Does anyone know why my last version of Rear Window blu ray was in 1.85 ratio and the new 4K one is the correct version at 1.66?
 

RickardL

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What is going on with the light in the Argosy Book Shop in Vertigo? When I rewatched the UHD 4K the other week, it occurred to me to me that I never understood why the light changes in the book shop, The scene becomes increasingly dark and none of the characters seem to react to it. I tried to search for it but did not find any good explaination for it.
The "funny" thing is that when Scottie and Midge are outside the shop afterwards, it is still dark inside the shop until suddenly you see the lights turning back on and kind of matches how it looks when we first see the interior of the shop.

Edit: If it is supposed to show that it is getting late and darker, it is way overdone; too dark and too quickly done.
 
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Robin9

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What is going on with the light in the Argosy Book Shop in Vertigo? When I rewatched the UHD 4K the other week, it occurred to me to me that I never understood why the light changes in the book shop, The scene becomes increasingly dark and none of the characters seem to react to it. I tried to search for it but did not find any good explaination for it.
The "funny" thing is that when Scottie and Midge are outside the shop afterwards, it is still dark inside the shop until suddenly you see the lights turning back on and kind of matches how it looks when we first see the interior of the shop.
Time is passing. The start of the scene is at early to mid afternoon and the conversation goes on for so long that by the end of it, light has faded.
 
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RickardL

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It goes from this

to this is in a few seconds IIRC. If it is only time passing and it is getting late, it happens way too fast.
 
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cannon1

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Michael
My feeling is it's one of those unexplained Hitchcockian ' effects' he was trying, to avoid depicting the expository scene 'straight' or conventionally, in view of the fact he so often talked about his priority of affecting the audience emotionally with the visual. How well it worked??
 

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