Josh Steinberg

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4/$44 sales do provide a certain amount of income, and I don’t mean to negate that, but what they don’t do is provide the kind of funding necessary to shepherd new and expensive projects through the pipeline. It’s a great secondary source of income and a great aftermarket life for existing product. And I don’t mean to suggest anyone should feel shame about utilizing those sales. But titles that sell during sales that don’t under normal circumstances mean that there’s low demand and that the studio needs to incentivize customers to buy. And a title that the studio needs to put extra effort into selling is a title that doesn’t sell on its own, which makes it harder to return to that well. The budgeting decisions made for releases are based on those releases needing to hit certain marks; if they don’t hit those marks, it becomes difficult to justify continuing to make similar products.

What I’m saying is simply this: sales of Million Dollar Mermaid at full price on or near street date will bring in a certain level of income which will help Warner recoup their investment and encourage them to invest more in similar titles. Sales made months or years after the fact, at a deep discount, will not have the same result. The market for catalog titles on physical media is rapidly constricting and if something doesn’t do as well as the studio needs it to do, they won’t throw good money after bad with further titles in that same series.
 

Nick*Z

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Sad but true. I keep reading the posts about the Twilight Time going-out-of-business sale and people complaining that the items they wanted were no longer available. Maybe if they had bought them months (or in many cases, years ago) they wouldn't have that problem. For that matter, if Twilight Time had been able to sell all 3,000 copies of each title upon release, it might still be a ongoing entity.

I'm old enough to remember Magnetic Video VHS releases of Fox feature films going for about $79.99 in 1977. (about $350 in today's dollars, and that's for VHS quality!). I was never rich enough to buy a 16mm print of a feature film.
Highly unlikely. Twilight Time ended with the passing of Nick Redman. His partner in the business, really had no interest in carrying on after Mr. Redman left us, much too soon, and terribly afflicted with cancer. But the company was really his passion from the outset. So, its retirement came as virtually no surprise. From the outset, TT's biggest challenge was marketing. I can't tell you how many avid movie buffs I had to keep pointing in their direction to get them to realize there was, in fact, a company out there pumping out vintage product for their consumption.

A lot of the TT product, however, needs to be recalled and remastered by Fox - which, given its current status as an appendage of the 'Mouse House' seems highly unlikely. But having watched a goodly number of TT's Blu's again very recently, I cannot abide the incorrect color timing on a host of these 'scope' movies that, after having consulted a friend who works for DeLuxe (but who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons and at their request to me) concurs, virtually none of these deep catalog Blu's come anywhere close to replicating the vintage look of DeLuxe color. Titles in this hopper, rife for remastering include, The King and I, Carousel, The Inn of the Sixth Happiness (not TT titles), Black Widow, The Blue Max, The Best of Everything, The Garden of Evil, The Black Swan, and Desk Set, among many others.

And now that Fox is in the hands of Disney, good luck ever seeing a Blu-ray release of Star! or Can-Can, among the myriad of vintage Fox product still MIA in hi-def. You can wait around and hope, but don't hold your breath!
 

Robert Harris

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Highly unlikely. Twilight Time ended with the passing of Nick Redman. His partner in the business, really had no interest in carrying on after Mr. Redman left us, much too soon, and terribly afflicted with cancer. But the company was really his passion from the outset. So, its retirement came as virtually no surprise. From the outset, TT's biggest challenge was marketing. I can't tell you how many avid movie buffs I had to keep pointing in their direction to get them to realize there was, in fact, a company out there pumping out vintage product for their consumption.

A lot of the TT product, however, needs to be recalled and remastered by Fox - which, given its current status as an appendage of the 'Mouse House' seems highly unlikely. But having watched a goodly number of TT's Blu's again very recently, I cannot abide the incorrect color timing on a host of these 'scope' movies that, after having consulted a friend who works for DeLuxe (but who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons and at their request to me) concurs, virtually none of these deep catalog Blu's come anywhere close to replicating the vintage look of DeLuxe color. Titles in this hopper, rife for remastering include, The King and I, Carousel, The Inn of the Sixth Happiness (not TT titles), Black Widow, The Blue Max, The Best of Everything, The Garden of Evil, The Black Swan, and Desk Set, among many others.

And now that Fox is in the hands of Disney, good luck ever seeing a Blu-ray release of Star! or Can-Can, among the myriad of vintage Fox product still MIA in hi-def. You can wait around and hope, but don't hold your breath!
You’re referencing many 5248 titles, with a problematic Y dye layer.
 
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PMF

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There’s no shame in being a bargain hunter.
True. When a sale is put forth, who can possibly resist? And yet...and yet...the WE of HTF; who have been educated on what it financially takes for WAC to restore; should meet them halfway. We know far more than the average consumer. No doubt, those 4 for $44 sales are beyond seductive. I, myself, have been guilty in the past, but now; at least with anything pre-1954; I made the decision to support WAC’s program at full price. And ya know what? It actually feels pretty damned good.:)

Here’s a brief sampling and reminder of what we’ve been given and why we need to keep it going:

Dodsworth
Gaslight
The Letter
Jezebel
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers
Summer Stock
Strike Up the Band
The Thin Man
The Sea Hawk
Footlight Parade

Yup, each and all were well worth those extra few bucks; so let us support WAC to the fullest; and hopefully our conscious efforts will ensure a future of more from these glorious decades.:thumbs-up-smiley:
 
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ScottHM

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If they get a big surge of preorders and purchases on or near street date, that’ll make the best possibly impression. If people by and large do things like wait for a 4/$44 sale to buy it, then we won’t get more. These days, it’s really that simple - buy right away and at full price if you want to support the release and encourage more of the same.
Unfortunately, not everyone interested in these films can afford to buy eight to ten Blu-rays a month at $18 - $20 each.
---------------
 

RichMurphy

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Highly unlikely. Twilight Time ended with the passing of Nick Redman. His partner in the business, really had no interest in carrying on after Mr. Redman left us, much too soon, and terribly afflicted with cancer. But the company was really his passion from the outset. So, its retirement came as virtually no surprise.
You missed my point. I am aware of Twilight Time's history. Yes, marketing was a factor as you mentioned, as was the accelerating decline of physical media. But if Twilight Time's overly-optimistic business model had somehow worked and had it been a surprisingly profitable business, I have no doubt that another person or entity would have continued Mr. Redman's legacy. Money talks. The inability to sell even 3,000 copies of a title at full price must have been a major factor in TT's demise.
 
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PMF

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Unfortunately, not everyone interested in these films can afford to buy eight to ten Blu-rays a month at $18 - $20 each.
---------------
Then try buying 4 to 5 per month.:)
To keep these titles coming, WAC needs to recoup their monies, as well.:thumbs-up-smiley:
 
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Josh Steinberg

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Unfortunately, not everyone interested in these films can afford to buy eight to ten Blu-rays a month at $18 - $20 each.
---------------
Oh trust me, I know. The amount of things I can buy has decreased quite a bit in the past year. We all have to do the best we can. My comment is more directed in a general sense to people who cite certain titles as holy grails and then don’t follow through with purchases. It’s been a consistent problem for years that whenever the studios do surveys for what people want, the survey results say one thing but then the sales figures rarely live up to the interest that’s been previously expressed.

For me personally, it means that I use my budget as wisely as I can but that I’ll also prioritize the titles most important to me and get those on release. It’s perhaps an imperfect solution but the best I can do. :)
 

CJamesCook

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Perhaps WAC should replace the "4 for 44" sales with something that is more sustainable yet still appealing. If we go from an $11 to a $12 price point, we get "3 for 36". Or a $13 price point with "the $39-ers". Or a $14 price point with "5 for $70mm"? Or ...

An announcement from WAC with a bit more candor than a vague "we need more to make this sustainable" would work wonders, I hope.
 

ScottHM

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The inability to sell even 3,000 copies of a title at full price must have been a major factor in TT's demise.
About the only films that I personally would be willing to pay $40 for is if you could somehow miraculously produce the four lost Warner Oland Charlie Chan films on Blu-ray (or even DVD). TT's price point just didn't work for me.
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Mark-P

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One thing I'd like to point out, is yes indeed the 4-for-44 sales are controlled by Warner and they are getting less profit per disc, however if you are buying from Amazon, don't think that when you pay $21.99 versus when Amazon cuts the price to $17.99 or lower, that you are giving more money to Warner. You aren't. Warner gets the same commission regardless of the price Amazon charges.

Yes I know I'm part of the problem. I love a bargain, and I would not feel good about blowing all my discretionary income on paying retail price. Every time I take a Criterion disc off my wishlist because I just bought the same title at iTunes for $4.99 I've stuck a knife into physical media.

True. When a sale is put forth, who can possibly resist? And yet...and yet...the WE of HTF; who have been educated on what it financially takes for WAC to restore; should meet them halfway...
This is what I mean, you start out saying sales are fine, then you lay on the guilt trip telling us what we SHOULD do. This is the shaming that I am talking about.
 

noel aguirre

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Haha! Nobody in film those days had the correct accent.
“A dingo stole my baybay” this is not!!

just ordered as this looked spectacular on TCM last month!
 
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PMF

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[...]This is what I mean, you start out saying sales are fine, then you lay on the guilt trip telling us what we SHOULD do. This is the shaming that I am talking about.
Did I not also say that I had been guilty, too?

And where would my collection be, today, were it not for sales?

And gosh, do we all need ‘em when we’re strapped to a budget and need a lift to our day.

Shaming is not intended, but the thought remains the same; SHOULD we not support when and where we can? I mean, after all, what’s so wrong with having a two-way street? Something for us and something for them.

It’s been often written by other posters, far more in the know than myself, that Ansco, 3-Strip and Nitrate restorations are expensive and need our support. I simply arrived at that action of a stronger support and commitment about 10 months ago and felt it was a worthwhile reminder; specifically in terms of pre-1954 restorations, to which we often request. Yes, once in a while we SHOULD pony up; and I’ll stand by that statement.

But hey, Mark, you too are also correct; if WAC announces a killer sale, then of course we’re gonna bite. After all, that’s what it’s designed for us to do.:)
 
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PMF

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[...]
Yes I know I'm part of the problem. I love a bargain, and I would not feel good about blowing all my discretionary income on paying retail price.
[...]
No, you are not a part of the problem.
Anyone who loves films and is not a bootlegger of discs could never be part of the problem. In fact, your love for film is part and parcel as to why our libraries continue to expand.

And speaking of parcels...and of sales...and of 4 for $44...and of the devil, itself, Warner’s has just announced another sale, on this very morning.

And yes, I shall definitely be partaking, as well. :)
 
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ScottHM

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And speaking of parcels...and of sales...and of 4 for $44...and of the devil, itself, Warner’s has just announced another sale.
I hope Kino doesn't have a sale this month, I just bought seven Blu-rays from Criterion and seven from wbshop. I'm already over budget.

---------------
 
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lark144

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I just got MILLION DOLLAR MERMAID in the mail today. The color is so gorgeous and pristine and limpid and pure that it almost makes ROMANCE ON THE HIGH SEAS (which was my all time favorite three strip Technicolor Blu-ray until a few hours ago) seem faded and tawdry by comparison. The blues in this film rival Renoir and Monet. And the richness of the swirling depths of the water tank during the "Smoke" water ballet is positively hallucinatory. It's a completely different film, a much better one, than what was on the DVD. The transparency and finesse of the color makes everything more evocative, and refined, somehow. Even Victor Mature's mugging suddenly seems lighter than air.
 

noel aguirre

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This looks SPECTACULAR! Just arrived. The reds are superb as well as the detail. So happy! Why can’t all blu-rays of vintage movies look this good? WOW!
 

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