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A Chinese Ghost Story (1 Viewer)

Danny Tse

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Hong Kong films has always been shown with traditional Chinese and English subtitles, even in Hong Kong.
 

Lew Crippen

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When I think back to going to the movies in Hong Kong, Danny you are correct. I spent much more time (and more recently) in Singapore, so I’d sort of forgotten that it was true in Hong Kong as well.
 

Brian Thibodeau

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It was law in Hong Kong up until 1997. I'd imagine it just remained a habit after that. Plus, the filmmakers probably knew their films were available to a much larger Chinese diaspora than ever before, some of whom may use English as a first language, not to mention the non-Chinese film buffs like myself. What I wouldn't give to have lived there for a while, though...
 

Danny Tse

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Really??!!

As I remember it, the subtitles are displayed in traditional Chinese and in English, which wouldn't help those in mainland China since they are accustomed to reading simplified Chinese. The English subtitles....well, most of them were pretty bad.
 

Brian Thibodeau

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Well, now you've gone and got me doubting myself, Danny! ;)

I just finished reading a book about the history of Hong Kong (and of course I don't have it with me today!), but I know the British instituted the English subtitles thing way, way back (forget the year) in an effort to keep tabs on any potential anti-empirical or pro-communist subtext or some such standard issue paranoia of the time. They may have done this around the time of the communist revolution and the attendant influx of unwanted immigration from the mainland from 1949 onwards. I believe it was legally mandated. I'm sure by the 70's, 80's and 90's, as the last remaining outpost of empire sat ready to be handed back to China, the whole subtitles thing was performed more out of habit than duty, since the British weren't quite so concerned with cinematic subversion anymore and the industry itself made it's mistrust of the Chinese "system" evident on more than a few occasions: witness the glut of pre-97 movies that dealth with the impending heebie-jeebies over the handover. The bleakest and most obvious was probably Johnnie To's production of INTRUDER (1997), but there were many others that barely hid their misunderstanding, distrust and fear of the incoming regime within the subtext.

Granted, not a lot of effort ever seemed to be put into the English subs, and at best they were seemingly written by people for whom English was barely a second language, but I've always found that to be part of the charm of Hong Kong cinema: if you don't speak Chinese fluently, sometimes your brain has to fill in the gaps.
 

Danny Tse

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Brian,

That's very interesting information. But growing up in HK, until I was 9, there was always mistrust and fear of the mainland Chinese government before the handover in 1997. But I guess that's another topic.

I really need to check out some books on HK cinema. It's really shocking to me that most people from HK have no interest in the history or significance of their movies (or music). When I go to a Chinese language bookstore, there are hardly any books on HK cinema. There're more books on HK cinema at the local Barner and Noble/Borders than any Chinese bookstores here in the US.

Hmmm....just gave myself an idea. Please, this is not meant to be name-dropping, but my uncle is Chor Yuen, and I bet he have some interesting stories to tell. He was the top director at Shaw Bros. in the 60s and 70s. Maybe he would be interested in a biography of him (Chinese people rarely, if ever, write autobiographies). But the last time I talked to him was 2 years ago..... :frowning:
 

Lew Crippen

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I was first in Hong Kong in about 64. I’m sure that I must have seen a film or two by him—but I really can’t remember any titles from way back then.
 

Danny Tse

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Have you seen "The House of 72 Tenants"? This is the movie that forever changed HK cinema as it forever banished Mandarin-language movies from mainstream HK cinema. BTW, that's my cousin, my uncle's son, on the cover. To think I taught him to drive in my Chevy Chevette. :D

"Killer Clans" was probably one of his most famous movies. Here are some more. He received a "Lifetime Achievement" award several years ago from the HK Film Awards and he's due to get his star on the HK Avenue of Stars.

My uncle's favorite actor to use was Di Lung (or Ti Lung), who you may remember from "A Better Tomorrow" movies. The only time my uncle visited me here in the States, he came with Di Lung, who made a call from our home phone. Very nice, soft-spoken man.
 

Brian Thibodeau

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Great to see so many Chor Yuen films once again becoming available from Celestial on DVD. I've got about 40 Shaw DVDs waiting to be watched, among them many Chor Yuen films, which I keep reading great things about. Also thought he was great playing the heavy in Jackie Chan's POLICE STORY (1985). One area of Asian cinema I've avoided, for the most part, over the years, was the "kung-fu theatre" style old-school martial arts films, which I always knew were heavily bastardized from their original forms, not to mention badly panned-and-scanned and laughably dubbed. From what I've read, it sounds like a lot of Chor Yuen's Shaw Brothers films were never even released abroad in such poor versions as a lot of Chang Cheh stuff. As I'd always hoped I'd one day be able to see these films in their unadulterated form, I just avoided most of the domestic versions. Now if only Golden Harvest would dig further into its vaults for some of its long-unseen 70's fare.

There are a couple good books out there on Chang Cheh, I believe. Chor Yuen would make an excellent subject as well.
 

Ted Lee

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danny, that's amazing about your uncle. boy, i bet we could pick his brain *big-time*.

interesting thread, but i can't think of anything to type.

i also like the teacher's list - seems like a pretty well-rounded list.

ps, what do you guys mean by "overreaching"? re: shadow magic (which is a film i loved!)....
 

Brian Thibodeau

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Yeah, a HTF exclusive chat with the man would be pretty informative, providing he's up to discussing such old stuff with fans, and willing to have someone translate and type for him. Oh, well...in dreams, I suppose.


Ted,

I think some people feel perhaps the subject matter of Shadow Magic (the fear of westernization in a fiercely traditional Chinese society circa the early 20th century) was a bit too much for a young, first-time director, that she was "over-reaching" her abilities by trying to tackle it, although personally I thought she handled it all quite well without becoming overly didactic or syrupy. The general impression I've got from so-so reviews is that even if they believe the story to be out of Hui's league (which I don't believe it is), they still tend to agree she made a beautiful movie.
 

ThomasC

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How uplifting to watch Farewell My Concubine yesterday and then discover in research that Leslie Cheung committed suicide last year. :frowning: His performance was incredibly heartbreaking.
 

Ted Lee

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odd brian ... i didn't feel that way at all either. as long as she can pull it off, then she deserves the praise! go figure....
 

Danny Tse

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Reviving an old thread....

Just visited HK at the beginning of the month. Accidentally happened upon the actual building that houses the Hong Kong Film Archive while passing by in a car. I didn't get a chance to go inside, but I decided to look it up after coming home. Looks like a fasinating place, especially for those who have an interest in HK movies. I think most will be surprised that HK filmmaking go beyond gunplay and kung-fu movies. Please click around the website....you may be surprised at what you can find.

Hmmmm....upcoming event include a tribute to actress/director/producer Sylvia Chang. You may remember her from the movie "Red Violin" with Samual L. Jackson, but you could see her in some episodes of the TV series "MASH" as well.

Wow!! Upcoming exhibition include "Time and Tide
- Changes in Hong Kong Cinema in the 70s". What conincidence!! HK is currently going through a retro trend in both movies and music. The lengendary comedy team of the 70s and 80s, the Hui Brothers, are in the middle of the things.

Ted and Brian, if you guys are reading this, my uncle is writing an autobiography for the HK Film Archive. He's still in good health.
 

Ted Lee

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very cool danny ... glad to hear your uncle's still doing well. :emoji_thumbsup: you'll have to see if he's willing to share his autobiography with us... :)
 

Brian Thibodeau

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At last!

Good to know Chor Yuen still has good stuff to share. Now, if only we could get him to sign up to HTF and have a sit-down with some of us...

I know, I know, wishful thinking. Guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for that book some day. The HKFA has some excellent publications, I've heard, as does the Hong Kong International Film Festival.

I had no idea Sylvia Chang was in MASH. And to think, I watched nearly every episode of that growing up (and it wasn't even a fave show; just one my parents watched). I suppose they had her play a Korean? Sigh... I really enjoyed her movie TEMPTING HEART, as well.

I just picked up a retro-homage to the Hui Brothers called FANTASIA, in which Lau Ching-wan does a spot-on riff on Michael Hui, Louis Koo does Sam Hui and Jordan Chan essays Ricky Hui. Haven't watched the whole thing, but flipped through a few scenes when I go it and was stunned at how well these three actors nailed those comedy legends. I wasn't totally convinced they'd recreated 70's HK (an impossible task in that city if ever there was one), but I'll reserve judgement until I've seen the film all the way through.
 

Danny Tse

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Brian,

Updates regarding the Hui Brothers, they are in the middle of a complete return to the movies and music....

Sam Hui re-emerged from retirement to stage a series of concerts at Hong Kong Coliseum, beginning June 5th. While highly anticipated, no one expected the record-setting pace tickets were selling at. Originally slated for a series of 10 concerts, the 120,000+ tickets was sold out at record-setting pace. Another 10 shows were announced for August, and those tickets were gone at a pace faster than those of the first 10 shows. Six shows were added for the end of June, with the Hong Kong government backing out of their "handover celebration" at the HK Coliseum, and those tickets were gone at even faster pace. Right now, rumors of 10 additional shows for October is flying around. At each show, Sam pays tribute to his departed friends, like Bruce Lee, Leslie Cheung, and Anita Mui.



BTW, Sam Hui holds the record for attendance at the HK Coliseum when his "Farewell Concerts" lasted for 41 consecutive shows. You can check out a ton of photos at the Unofficial Sam Hui Website. Also, Sam Hui has announced he will be making a movie based on the character of Wisely. He previously portrayed the character in 1986 with "The Legend of Wisely" while he was with Cinema City.

Michael Hui is currently filming a comedy with Lau Ching-wan and Miriam Yeung. Both Michael and Ricky Hui are nightly performing guests at Sam Hui's concerts.

Sylvia Chang, of course, appeared at a Korean barkeeper in several episode toward the end of "MASH". She was also Sam Hui's costar in the "Aces Go Places" (aka Mad Max) series, which is available on DVD in the US from Anchor Bay.

As for my uncle's memoir, he's working on it full time. He's not taking any acting jobs on TV or in movies.
 

Brian Thibodeau

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A return of the Hui brothers together would rock. It would be ironic, though, if the saviours of the rather moribund Hong Kong comedy turned out to be the guys who revolutionized it in the 70's!

Sam Hui's brief return from retirement in 2000's WINNER TAKES ALL, which also brought his ACES co-star Karl Maka back to the screen, was a decidely mixed affair, with both men starting to show their age. I guess time will literally tell how well any Hui brothers film reunion might fare.

So tell me Danny, is it just me or are Hong Kong Chinese folks some of the most nostalgic people on earth? The sheer number of extended "farewell" and "comeback" performances, seemingly repeated every few years in some cases, by so many singing stars (all with more than enough memorable tunes to fill a concert) has always made me wonder if Hong Kong residents hold their celebrities in even higher regard than most Americans or Canadians. Judging by all the celbrity gossip mags I see in Toronto's Chinatown communities, I'd say audiences are just as hungry for dirt there as they are here, but there just seems to be a much stronger desire to rekindle that "magic" of Hong Kong's distant and sometimes immediate past. Obviously, I could be imagining the whole thing...

And thanks for the info regarding Sylvia Chang in MASH. Now I remember her character perfectly! Typical of Hollywood though, to figure audiences wouldn't be clever enough to notice she wasn't Korean. :rolleyes
 

Danny Tse

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Generally, my opinion is that HK people has a very short span of attention. Stars generally flame out really quickly and soon fade into obscurity. However, the Hui Brothers have a special place in the hearts of HK people. I think it was the passing of both Anita Mui and Leslie Cheung, both huge stars of the 80s and early 90s, not to mention the SARS scare of last year, that the general population of HK long for the "good times". And the Hui Brothers took advantage of that "longing" and the box-office success of "Fantasia" during Chinese New Year period to "reunite". Most consider the "good times" as the 70s and the 80s, when Hong Kong was taking off economically and finally coming into its own culturally as well. More than anyone in Hong Kong music or movies, Sam Hui symbolizes that era. The Hui Brothers films of the 70s were the first HK movies to have a distictively HK point of view, while breaking box-office records on a regular basis. Not to mention being training grounds for directors-to-be Sammo Hung and John Woo. In music, Sam Hui himself pioneered Cantonese pop music and generally acknowledged as the most important figure in the development of HK pop music. Not to mention having the first ever Chinese language song played on the BBC. Previous to that, Mandarin pop music dominated the HK music scene. His contributions to HK pop culture are studied in university courses in HK universities.

TVB, the TV studio own by Sir Run-run Shaw (of the Shaw Bros. fame) and breeding ground for actors such as Chow Yun-fat and Tong Leung, recently released a 4 VCD package of "The Best of the Hui Brothers", the TV comedy series dating back to 1971 and created before any of the Hui Brothers movies. It's very similar to Monty Python or "Laugh-In", and surprisingly, quite political. You'll see cameos of very young Karl Maka (with hair) and Raymond Wong, before they go on to form Cinema City. Upon release, this VCD set quickly went out of print. When I was in HK earlier this month, I had a hard time locating it.
 

ThomasC

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Mwahahahaha...I'm in Taiwan until early August, and Zhang Yimou's "House of Flying Daggers" will be released on July 16th here. It doesn't hit the U.S. until December 10th. :D:D:D At least Yimou gave the finger to Miramax and gave the rights to Sony Pictures Classics instead, or else it might've been released in 2006 or even later.
 

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