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a bit dissapointed with the stryke 15 performance on TN Data list (1 Viewer)

Jack Gilvey

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Oh, boy.
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There's a thread over on HTT with info. from John J. and Dan W. about the Tempest vs. HE15. Some good info, and some observations about how a pair of Tempests holds up to an HE15 system.
Mark,
You can always be counted on for an excellent, informed, unbiased analysis, free of crap. Thanks.
The more I hear about the Stryke, the more impressed I am. Even though my Tempest/AVA250 is currently more than I need in my room (just over 1400 cu.ft.).
 

Mark Seaton

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James,
Bob is running a Dual HE15 enclosure with a single Crown K2 amplifier. The HE15 in the PR enclosure is 3-4 Ohms PER COIL. Parallel these, and you have 2 Ohms per driver. The K2 will cruise along just fine producing up to 1250W into EACH channel, which in this case is each HE15. That makes for a total of 2500W available to the dual HE15 sub. Where you might have been confused is that for your sub, if you did the same wiring configuration, the Tempests wired in parallel are ~4 Ohm, so you would get 800W/ch, or 1600W total. Take note that this corresponds, as it should, with the bridged ratings for the K2 into 4 Ohms and 8 Ohms, so there is no benefit to bridged operation. For those wondering, as you can see above, a K2 with one coil of an HE15 on each channel can produce a total of 1600W, the same as if you put the coils in series and bridged it.
Hope this clears things up,
Mark Seaton
 

Bob Sorel

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Dec 30, 1999
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I just got out of work and I see that Mark has already explained my setup, and very precisely, I might add
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James, I built and owned 2 Tempests and 3 Shivas, all in separate enclosures, so I am quite familiar with what they can and cannot do, at least in my system. Though the Tempest is a terrific value for the money, it really can't hold a candle to the HE 15, in my humble opinion. I built two 7.5 ft^3 Sonosubs tuned to 18 hz, each with a single Tempest, and even with my old Ashly FET 2000M amp (1350 watts in mono/bridged), I could bottom them quite easily during passages from Toy Story 2, Lost In Space, U-571, The Haunting DTS, and others while listening at reference level.
The Tempests, at around $140 each are a great bargain in the price/performance area, but when you compare them side by side with the HE 15's (and I did just that), it really is no contest. The Tempest is akin to a Honda (great performance for the dollars spent), while the HE 15 is a Ferrari (high performance with cost no object). If all you ever did was drive around town at 25 mph, then you would find very little difference between a Honda and a Ferrari. But if you cruised around a long, winding mountain road at 130 mph, you would find the differences to be quite dramatic. I am a hotrodder and demand the best!
BTW, I was able to bottom a single Tempest right around 118 db at 1 meter, using program material from "Lost In Space" (first chapter). The same scene with the HE 15 pegged my Rat Shack meter on its highest setting (120 db scale, I think), without even a hint of reaching its limits. Since the output was higher than my RS meter could measure, I really don't know how loud it was....I'm gonna need a better meter :)
 

KonradN

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Dec 3, 2000
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I just ead the htt thread referenced by Jack and John from stryke audio did simualation to compare a single tempest in 8 cu ft enclosure vs the single stryke in pr aligmentment using 4 cu ft. The results showed that the stryke had a little more max output across the board (maybe a 2-3 db advantage) when both were given the maximum power they can take. dual tempest should be around 3-4db louder than a single stryke.
Bob,
you said you were able to botton out a dual tempest setup but were never able to botton out a single or was it a dual stryke configuration?
 

Bob Sorel

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So, Bob...when's the big "coming-out" picnic for the Dual-Stryke sub? I gotta hear that!
Jack, you are invited to come over for a listen any time you are in the area (northern Rhode Island)! I'll soon have an Electrohome Marquee 9500LC projector setup (I'm getting rid of my "meager" Marquee 8000), so I'm sure I can treat you to some of the best HT you will ever see and hear
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Tom Vodhanel

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>>>I'm not a sub expert. But I am going to get the Stryke package rather than the SVS.
According to the figures supplied, there is a 15dB difference (ie compression) between the SVS max and what it will do at 20Hz.20dBs too!
TV
 

Julian Data

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 5, 1999
Messages
408
TN: Tom Nousiane of "The SENSIBLE SOUND" and "Sound and Vision" magazines. He's a product evaluator/reviewer.
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Mark Seaton

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Don't forget that Tom Nousaine is also a big proponent of DIY subwoofers, where his specialty as a reviewer lies in the consistency ad repeatablity of his tests. TN also has his own personal IB subwoofer using 12!!! TC-15 drivers (NOT HE-15, but rather a driver related to the Eclipse Aluminum 15" and Krell's MRS). These drivers were sold by Audio-X-Stream which is no longer in operation.
Mark Seaton
 

Bob Sorel

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Ok guys, here's a quick pic of my newest, dual HE 15 sub. I am still experimenting with placement, so don't be too concerned about the current positioning. I will take whatever time and trouble that is necessary to determine the best response at my primary listening position, and then tame any peaks that might be left using the BFD.
sub7.jpg
 

KonradN

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Dec 3, 2000
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that looks sweet, what are the external dimension of that and does the whole thing weigh 400 lb? Did you run some nearfield measurments on it, especially one at a high spl level?
After some consideration I might pass on the stryke. It's definitely the solution that yields the most bass in the least amount of volume but it weighs too much - around 200lb. Sonotubes suddenly look very appealing. I am thinking about using a 16" diameter tube by 3-4 feet tall to build my first sonotube. I will put in the 'best' 12" driver that money can buy to yield maximum clean bass and flat frequency response for the given enclosure. My gut feeling tells me that it will be the mass 3012 or whatever it will be called. This may be wishfull thinking but I am hoping that new 12" mass to have 30+mm one-way xmas, a vas below 100 liter, 90+db sensitivity,an fs close to 20hz or even lower, and of course retain its sound quality.
 

Julian Data

Second Unit
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Oct 5, 1999
Messages
408
Mark,
Like I said at AVSF.. Great work! :D
Konrad,
The 3012 won't be 30mm Xmax one way. I hope you realize you much you have to push the driver to reach this point.
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KonradN

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Messages
131
Julian,
You seem to know some info about the mass 3012 and maybe even its t/s parameters. Can you reveal them to us and comment on the mass 3012 general performance. You can email me about it if you prefer.
 

Bob Sorel

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Dec 30, 1999
Messages
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quote: that looks sweet, what are the external dimension of that and does the whole thing weigh 400 lb?[/quote]
It measures 22"W X 22"D X42"H and weighs ~350 pounds.
quote: Did you run some nearfield measurments on it, especially one at a high spl level?[/quote]
Nope, I can't do it because of problems with room noise. Besides, TN has taken all the necessary measurements, and the info can be found on the Stryke site. I just want to get the flattest response possible in my room. Those are the only measurements that are of value to me.
quote: After some consideration I might pass on the stryke. It's definitely the solution that yields the most bass in the least amount of volume but it weighs too much - around 200lb. Sonotubes suddenly look very appealing. I am thinking about using a 16" diameter tube by 3-4 feet tall to build my first sonotube.[/quote]
After building 5 Sonotube subs, I would never go back to them due their large, awkward size and appearance, but that's me. Even though the dual HE 15 weighs ~350 pounds, it takes up considerably less space in my home theater and I find it easier to move (and it only moves when I want it to, and not by itself) than my old 24" diameter Sonosubs. One of the great things about DIY is the fact that you can build what is right for you.
quote: I will put in the 'best' 12" driver that money can buy to yield maximum clean bass and flat frequency response for the given enclosure. My gut feeling tells me that it will be the mass 3012 or whatever it will be called. This may be wishfull thinking but I am hoping that new 12" mass to have 30+mm one-way xmas, a vas below 100 liter, 90+db sensitivity,an fs close to 20hz or even lower, and of course retain its sound quality.[/quote]
I haven't stopped to even glance at the specs for the proposed Mass3012 since I have found my bass Nirvana with my dual HE 15, so I am redirecting my DIY efforts towards the more challenging hobby of speaker and crossover building. The HE 15 does everything I need and want to perfection, and at the levels I am already at another 1.5 dbs seems pretty meaningless, so my subwoofer building career ends here
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One thing I should point out to potential sub builders: I have been a professional bass player for about 25 years, so I have spent an enormous amount of time with professional bass drivers of all sorts, and in that time I have reached some opinions in regards to driver sizes. 12" drivers never seem to deliver deep enough bass (regardless of what the specs say), but have great transient response, 18" drivers seem to deliver very deep bass, but bad transient response, and 15" drivers always seem to have the best blend of deep bass and great transient response. For these reasons, I have always preferred the sound of 15" drivers, and in the last couple of years I have spent listening and then building home theater subwoofers, this trend has remained consistent for me.
I am not saying that this will be the case for you, but I recommend that you spend a lot of time listening to each size of driver before committing yourself. There are certain intangible qualities that each driver possesses that the specs themselves will never tell you, and only time and experience will give you the full story. Trust your ears....it is the best tool in your arsenal!
 

Julian Data

Second Unit
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Oct 5, 1999
Messages
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Nope, I can't do it because of problems with room noise. Besides, TN has taken all the necessary measurements, and the info can be found on the Stryke site. I just want to get the flattest response possible in my room. Those are the only measurements that are of value to me.
Bob,
I highly agree with that statement and the rest of your post!:D
After my sub is done, I hope that this will be sub that I will build and being that this will be a modular design, all I have to do is develop some new baffles to change the configuration plus add ballast take up volume if the need arises.
I can't wait to move into the XO design and building other speakers.
:D
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TerryC

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Oct 19, 1999
Messages
218
Looks absolutely killer Bob!!!
What did you use for finish, can you see any seams?
Its funny, I want to move into the box direction but my wife Vanessa prefers the Sonotube look.
 

Bob Sorel

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Dec 30, 1999
Messages
89
What did you use for finish, can you see any seams?
Terry, I use a very simple eggshell finish black paint. My philosophy with speakers and subwoofers is that they should be heard and not seen. I just bought an Electrohome Marquee 9500LC FPTV, and I want all the visual attention directed towards that!
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Julian Data

Second Unit
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Oct 5, 1999
Messages
408
Terry,
That's funny how your wife prefers the tube. What do you prefer?
I miss the box.
Bob,
I'll be watching your progress with great interest just like I did with Pat and others.
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Patrick Sun

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Jun 30, 1999
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Terry, I hope your wife's preference for sonotubes isn't anything phallic! LOL!
If you think getting your subwoofer EQ's in your room is a friggin' nightmare, just y'all wait until you start mucking about with XO's and playing with tweeters/midranges/woofers.
Again, trust your ears, and they'll lead you down the right path even if the graphs don't.
Remember the keyword for today and tomorrow is INTERACTION. Never forget the push-pull effects of all the different components that make up a music reproduction system in the home. It'll feel like walking a high-wire without a net sometimes when you get into the XO tweaking phase (I'll bet, even when you have the nice software to go with it).
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PatCave; HT Pix; Gear; DIY Mains; DIY CC; Sunosub I + II + III; DVDs; Link Removed
 

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