950 beta testers, confirm my bass mgmnt setup (1 Viewer)

[Brandon B]

My solution is to keep my 2 channel preamp with HT passthrough.

Just as well as it has a headphone out and turntable input.

BB

 

[Chris Zell]

If you intend to not use the sub for pass-through listening, then I have no great answer. But I'm not sure why you wouldn't use the sub all the time. If it is properly integrated (a very time consuming task, but well worth the effort), then my experience is that I am always better off with sub than without. If you use the sub all the time, then I have an answer to the double bass issue - don't even use the 950 sub output - I have non intention of using it myself. This is to allow me the greatest flexibility, and it also eliminates the double bass problem.

I will always set the Main L/R to large. Then I route this output to an external crossover, I'll probably will use the ICBM, but if your sub has a flexible crossover, than you could use it. I will then send the high pass to the Front L/R. I also send another FULL range signal to the sub (split the Front L/R signal to the ICBM, and send one copy set to bypass to the sub). I want to do this so I can independently set the crossover to the sub. I have had the best luck by having slightly asymetric High-pass and low-pass frequencies and slopes. I want the ability to fiddle with both completely independently

So with the setup above... I do not consider the "double Bass" an issue at all.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Bob_L]

I'm fortunately flexible on this one as well.

I have an outboard amp for my sub. I'm going to calibrate the system with my sub amp at max volume. Then, depending on what I want to do in bypass mode, I can either tweak the amp volume down to reduce the sub output, leave it at calibration level and take the "double-bass," or just turn the amp off altogether for no sub. Return the amp to max volume and I'm calibrated again.

Additionally, my pattern for critical listening is to do a session of all-analog -- which will be LP playback (no SACD or DVD-A here yet) -- or all-digital listening. So, one setup change at the beginning of a listening session and I'm good for a few hours. A few seconds of tweak per session changeover is a small sacrifice, IMHO.

Is this absolutely ideal? No. But I figure when you're getting a pre/pro for $900, there are going to be some compromises. I hope that the 950 compromises will be in features and not in audio performance. And that priority is pretty much the characterization of the 950 I've gotten from the beta testers' comments.

 

[Chris Barker]

I just spoke with a woman at the Outlaws today and cancelled my order for the 950/755. The double bass issue just pushed me over the edge and I've reversed course on this product/company. I had high hopes for this product back in the late fall but as details have now become known it turns out it was not the product I was expecting. I'm sure many will be very happy with the product but it just doesn't have the focus on two channel sound purity that I had hoped. Since I had a very low reservation number my order probably would have shipped this week so it should be good news for those on the list. You should be getting your product sooner!

-CB

 

[Chris PC]

I guess my other recourse is to only use digital input on the 950 and not worry about it.

How does this affect pass-through and the subwoofer?

 

[BruceD]

Chris Zell,

I will always set the Main L/R to large. Then I route this output to an external crossover, . . .

Yes, for the last 3 years I have been using an external active electronic xover (Marchand) and an additional stereo preamp with my prepro with great results.

With the 950 I was simply looking for a single unit to replace these three with at least the same quality of sound and functionality.

__________________________________________________ ______

ChrisPC,

Regarding this quote of mine;

"I guess my other recourse is to only use digital input on the 950 and not worry about it."

and your question,

"How does this affect pass-through and the subwoofer?"

It doesn't, I would have to use the DACs in the 950 for CD playback and forget about my turntble and analog pass-thru. Although I may try the light switch for the powered sub on/off solution.

 

[BruceD]

Thanks guys for all the innovative solutions on the "double-bass" for analog pass-thru.

At least it gives me something to think about and work with.

 

[Brian Corr]

Am I correct that it doesn't matter whether you set your speakers to small or large?

As I understand it, the 950 sends a full range signal to the mains and the signal to the sub, regardless of whether they are set to large or small. Just trying to clarify.

 

[BruceD]

Brian,

I believe you are correct, that annoying additional sub signal path is always there, regardless of main speaker setups, ergo the "double-bass" monikor.

 

[brian a]

Can one of the beta testers comment on if the beta units have the signal split feature in the analog pass through mode? I don't remember it being mentioned before.

 

[Will]

But I'm not sure why you wouldn't use the sub all the time. If it is properly integrated (a very time consuming task, but well worth the effort), then my experience is that I am always better off with sub than without.

In many systems with full range speakers, having a pass through mode that turns off the subwoofer and therefore uses just the main speakers in stereo, sounds better within the frequency range supported by the main speakers, than using the subwoofer.

Many receivers, including my dated Sony receiver, has a button on the remote to switch to a pass through mode. The pass through mode also turns off the subwoofer output, as a matter of course.

 

[John Morris]

BruceD: I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but if you do not have a DVD-A or SACD player, your solution is easy. Just use the L/R inputs of the 5.1 Direct Inputs and switch the fixed 80Hz analog filter switch to OFF.

I am using my 555es SACD player for SACD and CD playback and only have it connected to my 950 using the 5.1 Direct Inputs. Unless you use an ICBM or throw the switch on the 80Hz analog filter, you will only hear a subwoofer output when something is input into the .1 input.

Does that solve your dilemna?

 

[BruceD]

John,

Yes, thanks, using L&R of the 5.1 inputs would offer a workable solution as long as I don't buy an additional DVD-A or SACD player.

That's still no excuse for Outlaw forcing this questionable "feature" on all analog bypass signals.

 

[Will]

I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but if you do not have a DVD-A or SACD player, your solution is easy. Just use the L/R inputs of the 5.1 Direct Inputs and switch the fixed 80Hz analog filter switch to OFF.

If you sometimes want bass management (with a subwoofer) from your CD's with no double bass, how do you get it and have the option to switch to no bass management (pure bypass with no subwoofer) at other times?

 

[Jeff Kohn]

If you sometimes want bass management (with a subwoofer) from your CD's with no double bass, how do you get it and have the option to switch to no bass management (pure bypass with no subwoofer) at other times?

I suppose you could use the 80hz analog x-over on the 5.1 inputs, since I don't think that results in bass-doubling.

 

[John Morris]

If you sometimes want bass management (with a subwoofer) from your CD's with no double bass, how do you get it and have the option to switch to no bass management (pure bypass with no subwoofer) at other times?

Will: What Jeff said, and I guess for CDs with no double bass but with subwoofer, I'd connect digitally to the 950 and use the onboard processing with customizable crossover. For pure bypass with no subwoofer, I'd use the 5.1 direct inputs without turning the 80Hz analog filter on. Hope that advice helps with your hookup situation.

Get back to us with your specific CD/SACD/etc hookups and maybe we can work through this all so that you can get exactly what you want out of the 950... or at least get close to it.

 

[Mal P]

Hi John,

Do you know how the bass filter for the 5.1 inputs work? I assume that they use the same analog technology in the ICBM to roll off the bass of the 5 main channels into one "derived" channel. How does it then integrate this derived channel with the .1 channel of the 5.1 input? Does it convert the derived bass signal to digital, as well as converting the .1 channel to digital and combining them?

Would just the L/R inputs on the 5.1 inputs work? This could be a solution for me who wants to use an external CD player but sometimes wishes to use the sub, and doesn't want bass doubling.

Thanks,

Mal

 

[Bob_L]

It's right there in the manual:

"When the switch is in the Up position, the Analog Bass Management function is On, and the unit will provide an 80Hz crossover for the Left, Center, Right, Left Surround and Right Surround loudspeakers. Bass below 80Hz from all these channels will be sent into the subwoofer (.1) channel."

It's an ANALOG crossover on those 5.1 inputs so nothing gets digitized.

 

[Will]

With DVD-A's and SACD's, can't the .1 channel have music over 80 Hz, as well as under 80 Hz? I understand it can have signals quite high in frequency. In fact, I understand the .1 channel may in some cases carry the full frequency range. If that's true -- a big if there -- can the 950 redirect information over 80 Hz on the .1 channel to go someplace besides the subwoofer, or must any music over 80 Hz (as well as under 80 Hz) on the .1 channel always go to the subwoofer output on the 950?

 

[Brian Corr]

Will,

I think it's gonna have to go to the sub. I think any processor is going to do this, unless you specify no sub and large fronts.

In your scenario, it's a matter of the material being encoded wrong by the sound engineer and no processor is going to be able to correct that, especially at the price point were looking at for a pre/pro.