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70MM FILMS -HOW MANY HAVE YOU SEEN? (1 Viewer)

OliverK

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Robert Harris said:
We will agree to disagree.People travel to see 70mm films because they can't see them locally, or as a series.From my experience I prefer a quality scan to 4k.Keep in mind that there are only two 65mm feature productions, derived from prime elements. properly scanned in 8k, currently available as 4k DCPs. Any other 4k large format scans cannot be considered.More will come.RAH
With 70mm prints there is an urgency that is simply not there anymore with a 4k DCP - it is digital and in theory can be watched anytime even though we know that isn't true.I can think of three 8k large format scans from prime elements (mostly OCN) that are available as a 4k DCP:Ben-HurLawrence of ArabiaSamsaraWhile you probably don't count Samsara as a feature film I will say that it looked extremely impressive when I watched it back to back with a 4k DCP of LOAAre you aware of productions that were done with an 8k wetgate IP scan that are scheduled to be redone? To my knowledge there are not too many high profile productions that have not been tackled in some form or another with probably the two biggest missing titles being Around the World in 80 Days and until just now Oklahoma!. I also would suspect that some higher profile titles from big studios will be revisited with likely candidates being movies like 2001, Cleopatra or Spartacus.And what about Il Gattopardo, The Ten Commandments and King of Kings? Weren't these scanned at 4k from perf to perf of the negative, same as North by Northwest and therefore giving roughly the same amount of attention per square inch of film as the 65mm productions with an 8k scan?And then there is of course How The West Was Won. I think a very good looking 4k DCP exists?
 

Robert Harris

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OliverK said:
And what about Il Gattopardo, The Ten Commandments and King of Kings? Weren't these scanned at 4k from perf to perf of the negative, same as North by Northwest and therefore giving roughly the same amount of attention per square inch of film as the 65mm productions with an 8k scan?And then there is of course How The West Was Won. I think a very good looking 4k DCP exists?
Correct with VVLA and TLA. Same resolution, smaller negative.
 

OliverK

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My list of 70mm prints from large format productions:2001: A Space Odyssey55 Days at PekingAgony and the Ecstasy, TheAround the World in Eighty DaysBible, TheBrainstormCan-CanCheyenne AutumnChitty Chitty Bang BangCircus WorldCleopatraCuster of the WestDer Kongreß amüsiert sich (Western Germany)Doctor DolittleExodusFall of the Roman EmpireFar And AwayFlying ClipperGrand PrixGreatest Story Ever Told, TheHamletHello, Dolly !KhartoumKing of KingsKrakatoa East of JavaLast Valley, TheLawrence of ArabiaLord JimMaster, TheMutiny on the BountyPattonRyan's DaughterSavage PampasShéhérazadeSolomon and ShebaSong of NorvaySouth PacificSpartacusStarThe Great Wall (Shin shikôtei)The Story of the Flaming Years (USSR)Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying MachinesWar and Peace (USSR)West Side StoryHauptmann Florian von der Mühle (Eastern Germany)Dersu Uzala (Kurosawa)Goya (Eastern Germany)Orpheus in der Unterwelt (Eastern Germany)Du bist Min (Eastern Germany)This is about it although I think that I may be forgetting one or two Russian and/or Eastern European productions.I am still missing some big hitters like The Sound of Music, Baraka, Vertigo, Playtime, Oklahoma!, Ben-Hur and El Cid but it is getting harder and harder to see a decent print of the three last ones. Not worried about the first three, I will get around to them eventually.
 

DP 70

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With 70mm prints there is an urgency that is simply not there anymore with a 4k DCP - it is digital and in theory can be watched anytime even though we know that isn't true.I can think of three 8k large format scans from prime elements (mostly OCN) that are available as a 4k DCP:Ben-HurLawrence of ArabiaSamsaraWhile you probably don't count Samsara as a feature film I will say that it looked extremely impressive when I watched it back to back with a 4k DCP of LOAAre you aware of productions that were done with an 8k wetgate IP scan that are scheduled to be redone? To my knowledge there are not too many high profile productions that have not been tackled in some form or another with probably the two biggest missing titles being Around the World in 80 Days and until just now Oklahoma!. I also would suspect that some higher profile titles from big studios will be revisited with likely candidates being movies like 2001, Cleopatra or Spartacus.And what about Il Gattopardo, The Ten Commandments and King of Kings? Weren't these scanned at 4k from perf to perf of the negative, same as North by Northwest and therefore giving roughly the same amount of attention per square inch of film as the 65mm productions with an 8k scan?And then there is of course How The West Was Won. I think a very good looking 4k DCP exists?
I saw How the West Was Won projected from a 2K DCP on the Cinerama screen at Bradford a few years ago,it looked better than I thought it would , it was badly cropped as a flat not Smilebox version is onlyavailable in the DCP version.When I saw Samsara in 4K on the flat screen it was one of the best PQ I have ever seen.
 

DP 70

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They also screened Cleopatra in D150 for a short season. Unfortunately the editors had got to it and it had been cut down to the 3 hour version. You could see and hear the splices go through!
Thanks for that John, We love to know what else they showed in D-150.thanks Derek.
 

OliverK

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DP 70 said:
I saw How the West Was Won projected from a 2K DCP on the Cinerama screen at Bradford a few years ago,it looked better than I thought it would , it was badly cropped as a flat not Smilebox version is onlyavailable in the DCP version.When I saw Samsara in 4K on the flat screen it was one of the best PQ I have ever seen.
I read about HTWWW projected that way and I found even the thought of it objectionable :)Yes, Samsara looked stunning. And I think that The Master looked even better and it was on analog film. Film if done right has a certain quality not found in digital imo, especially if you get closer to the screen. However in the absence of decent 70mm prints 4k will certainly do and with SXRD instead of DLP we will be able to make 4k look a bit more analog plus we will be able to get much blacker blacks.I take it you also were able to watch The Master at Bradford? Not really a fan of the movie but the picture quality was outstanding.
 

DP 70

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Hi Oliver,

The Master as far as I know only showed in DCP at Bradford I saw it in London , it was the worse 70mm film I have ever seen, but the PQ was good.
 

AdrianTurner

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Oliver - I never said that (your post No.47). AFAIK, HTWWW has only ever been shown in 3-strip at Bradford. Never seen The Master - NMTAA (not my thing at all).
 

Douglas R

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AdrianTurner said:
Douglas - I need to add Custer of the West to my list - in Cinerama at the Casino I think.
Yes Custer was at the Casino although I happened to see it in Manchester at the Theatre Royal, which was a poor Cinerama conversion because the circle was so far from the screen - it didn't overhang the stalls but began at the end of them, with the projection box below. From the circle, it wasn't a lot diffferent to watching a normal wide screen picture, other than being curved. I've seen quite a few Cinerama installations around the country but none of them were as all-enveloping as the Casino and the Coliseum.
 

OliverK

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AdrianTurner said:
Oliver - I never said that (your post No.47). AFAIK, HTWWW has only ever been shown in 3-strip at Bradford. Never seen The Master - NMTAA (not my thing at all).
Hi Adrian, sorry, it was a problem with the quote function, I wanted to quote DP70 and have corrected my post accordingly. HTWWW was indeed shown in 2k in Bradford which imo is not an appropriate digital presentation format for HTWWW in cinemas.You have a way with LoA quotes, that is for sure!
 

OliverK

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DP 70 said:
Hi Oliver, The Master as far as I know only showed in DCP at Bradford I saw it in London , it was the worse 70mm film I have ever seen, but the PQ was good.
I find it disappointing that Bradford is turning to digital when there are other options, especially for The Master which imo looked very good.Regarding worst 70mm - you obviously have not seen Krakatoa East of Java and Song of Norway, those were horrible and two of the movies that sealed the fate of the cinerama corporation. I have to admit though that especially Krakatoa was quite funny even though it was unintentional. Song of Norway mostly even lacked that "quality" and I completely agree with Martin Hart from http://www.widescreenmuseum.com :

ABC and Cinerama Releasing produced a third and final large format bomb, Song of Norway, a film so awful that it wasn't actually released, it escaped.
 

Robert Harris

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AdrianTurner said:
Me: "Tell me, Major Harris, what is it that attracts you to 4k?" RAH: "It's clean."
Actually, what attracts me most, is that with so few venues / projectionists capable of safely and properly projecting 70mm on film, 4k is the only way to go.As far as picture quality, 4k has the edge.RAH
 

Vincent_P

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cinerama10 said:
.... I also managed to see HEAVENS GATE in 70mm during its brief 2 week season in New York. It was also shown in Los Angeles in 70mm for 2 weeks at the same time as its NYC screening. It was never shown anywhere else in 70mm after those 2 brief seasons.It was also heavily cut for all future 35mm screenings.
Actually the Los Angeles 70mm engagement of HEAVEN'S GATE was cancelled following the New York premiere.

Vincent
 

Douglas R

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OliverK said:
Regarding worst 70mm - you obviously have not seen Krakatoa East of Java and Song of Norway, those were horrible and two of the movies that sealed the fate of the cinerama corporation.
Fortunately I managed to avoid Song of Norway but I did have the misfortune to see The Great Waltz at the Casino (one has to compromise sometimes) which doesn't seem to have turned up even on TV since. That was a con because despite having the Cinerama logo, I later found out it was a 70mm blow up from 35mm. There were several films which fooled me into thinking they had been filmed in 70mm such as, Doctor Zhivago, The Great Race (Cinerama again), The Sand Pebbles, Camelot, Far From the Madding Crowd and especially Logan's Run - which deliberately stuck the Todd AO credit on posters to make audiences think it had been filmed in 70MM. It took me a while to wise up on these tricks!
 

john a hunter

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DP 70 said:
Thanks for that John, We love to know what else they showed in D-150.thanks Derek.
The only other ones I can recall Derek that were blow up to 70mm and shown in D150 at the Marble Arch Odeon were Lion in Winter and the Professionals.

As far as the worst blow up to 70mm I have seen, it was Gettysburg which I saw down here in Sydney . Excellent film but looked like crap.

I did see Song of Norway at the Casino and must say it looked superb. Pin sharp, great colour and a good sounding sound track that made the most of the sound installation there.Although the reviews were only too happy to heap scorn on it , approached in the right mood, it was silly but enjoyable fun. Ran for about a year there and was, as it was made on a shoe string, was financially successful.
 

cinerama10

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DP 70 said:
Hi Oliver,

The Master as far as I know only showed in DCP at Bradford I saw it in London , it was the worse 70mm film I have ever seen, but the PQ was good

The worst 70mm film ever seen.? Have you ever seen THE BIBLE...in the beginning? Other films seen in 70mm that I hated were:SOLOMON AND SHEBA; LE MANS;GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD; IN HARMS WAY; IS PARIS BURNING?, TOM SAYER;LUCKY LADY; SERGEANT PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND; THE WIZ ;SONG OF NORWAY;WATERLOO;;ROCKY 3; KHARTOUM; ICE STATION ZEBRA; POLTERGEIST ;LAST BOY SCOUT ; SEX IN 3-D and HEAVEN'S GATE.
 

cinerama10

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cinerama10 said:
Hi Oliver,

The Master as far as I know only showed in DCP at Bradford I saw it in London , it was the worse 70mm film I have ever seen, but the PQ was good

The worst 70mm film ever seen.? Have you ever seen THE BIBLE...in the beginning? Other films seen in 70mm that I hated were:SOLOMON AND SHEBA; LE MANS;GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD; IN HARMS WAY; IS PARIS BURNING?, TOM SAYER;LUCKY LADY; SERGEANT PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND; THE WIZ ;SONG OF NORWAY;WATERLOO;;ROCKY 3; KHARTOUM; ICE STATION ZEBRA; POLTERGEIST ;LAST BOY SCOUT ; SEX IN 3-D and HEAVEN'S GATE.
I forgot to also mention CUSTER OF THE WEST in my list above.
 

cinerama10

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Brian Sharp said:
I have seen all but four on the list and can add Finian's Rainbow, Song of Norway and The Great Waltz. I know I have no taste!!

FINIAN'S RAINBOW was a favourite of mine. Unforgettable music and a superb cast although Tommy Steele can be irritating as an actor.
 

cinerama10

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Douglas R said:
Yes Custer was at the Casino although I happened to see it in Manchester at the Theatre Royal, which was a poor Cinerama conversion because the circle was so far from the screen - it didn't overhang the stalls but began at the end of them, with the projection box below. From the circle, it wasn't a lot diffferent to watching a normal wide screen picture, other than being curved. I've seen quite a few Cinerama installations around the country but none of them were as all-enveloping as the Casino and the Coliseum.
The CASINO was criticised at the time, for not being suitable for Cinerama. The worst Cinerama installation that I ever saw (and I have seen many in several countries ) was in Wellington,New Zealand (where I worked). It was placed too high in the auditorium as fire regulations demanded exits on each side of the screen. They placed them underneath the screen. You had to strain your head and look up to the screen wherever you sat.It was okay from the projection booth however. They later replaced the 70mm Cinerama screen with a flat 70mm screen.. Best Cinerama screens that I saw were the Warner and Capitol in New York City.The Capitol was the last word in luxury, There are only three 3 strip Cinerama screens left but none of them are truly suitable for 3 strip. The Seattle screen ( the current one-not the original) has the top of the projected picture covered with black masking as the ceiling awning placed a shadow on the screen. Bradford screen is too small and does not protrude out to the audience and is it on a stage. This never happened in the original Cinerama era. The sides of the screen enveloped you if you sat up front.. The Dome is only 125 degree curvature ( true Cinerama was 145 degrees). I am also informed ( correct me if I am wrong) that the projected picture is too small for the screen and the sides are masked out..Let's not go into the problem with the huge angle from projection booth to screen. People elsewhere have criticised this..
 

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