7.1 with 5.1 movies q/a

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by dajaga, Apr 17, 2004.

  1. dajaga

    dajaga Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ok if i buy my self a 7.1 amp and play a 5.1 movie. so if you hear a gun fire in the surround left will you hear it on both surrounds or just the one. i hope i asked it right/ also sorry i didnt know if i should of pout it in speakers forum or amp forums. lol oh well thanks in advance dave
     
  2. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If your AVR has DD-EX, DTS-ES, and DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 capability, you'll be all set.

    There should be an option to "force matrix" any 5.1 DVD. In this mode, the AVR will simply apply matrix processing to the side surround channels and redirect some of that to the rear surrounds (dual mono).

    Your AVR might also have a DSP option for a 7.1 mode, where it sends a discrete signal to all seven speakers. This would be like h/k's Logic 7, Denon's Widescreen, and the latest DPLIIx.
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A slightly better answer [​IMG] is that it depends on the mode you're using, and the manufacturer of the receiver or pre/pro.

    I personally wouldn't recommend playing a 5.1 movie (i.e., "std" DD or DTS) with DD EX or DTS-ES. If there is any amount of common info in the surrounds, then the soundfield in the back of room will be artificially collapsed from the surrounds to the rears. But that is not the intent of DD EX or DTS-ES for discs that are specifically mastered for those decoding algorythms.

    Like Ed did mention, you should look for a matrix mode that is meant to specifically play a 5.1 movie on a 7.1 speaker setup. Something like Outlaw's CES modes, Rotel's xS modes, Denon's widescreen mode, etc.

    Most of these modes are a little bit more sophisticated than simply copying the info from the surrounds to the rear channels.
     
  4. Johnny_M

    Johnny_M Second Unit

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    my receiver (kenwood vr7080) has a surround re-mixing mode. does this basically take LR channels and blend them into the center? and if this mode is on, when i play a dvd encoded for the back surround, will it work normally like it should? or would that mode need to be disabled? my manual is very vague about this feature.

    Johnny
     
  5. Phil Iturralde

    Phil Iturralde Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 1998
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I'm not familiar with that AV Receiver, so you'll have to experiment and compare your DD/DTS-5.1 DVD normal vs. your Kenwood surround re-mixing mode. You can choose what you like, and if you want, report your findings here.

    Phil
     
  6. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 1998
    Messages:
    2,945
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    1,610


    I would also disagree with my esteemed colleague from California!

    True 5.1 stuff works very, very well with forced center back decoding. Anything that is mono should phantom image to the center back position, so if there is a hard center, it should reproduce the phantom center stuff just fine.

    What does not work well though is content that was mastered in "normal" Dolby Surround, where the surrounds were mono. In those cases, yes, everything will collapse to the rear center and DDEX or the equivalent from DTS is not the best choice.

    The boys at WSR at one point would always comment in their reviews if they were using their circle surround decoder to produce a back center signal. In almost all cases, they said the results were good.

    For whatever reason, they seem to no longer mention that, but I have gotten in the habit of forcing DDEX on with most any recent film, and the results are normally good.

    BGL
     
  7. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    See, at least here I can comment. [​IMG] My bad experiences with both DD EX (and DTS-ES) forced decoding of DD (and DTS) soundtracks are for older movies (the previous version of Alien, Top Gun, etc), where in a lot of cases, the differences between the surrounds are not as large and the entire back of the room sound field collapses. So I just don't take the chance anymore.
     
  8. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 23, 1999
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Phil, nicely done and your set up must truly rock.
     
  9. Phil Iturralde

    Phil Iturralde Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 1998
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Jerome!!! Looks like you have enough HT power to disturb your neighbors too!!! [​IMG]

    This Friday NITE's DVD presentation "Master & Commander" w/Forced-ON DTS-ES should sound 'Most Glorious'!!!

    I'll sample it tonight (beginning broadside battle) to establish my audible 105/106 dB** listening REF Level!!!

    **My usual & standard once or twice a month Friday NITE DVD presentation Fast LFE SPL Peaks (for family & friends), ... since 1998. Loud enough to move the air, floor, couch, seats, wall, pant-leg(s) @ all my seating locations and still maintain an audible whispering dialog level during the quieter moments of the Blockbuster DVD movie! [​IMG]

    Phil
     

Share This Page