7.1 on a Kenwood VR-5080?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Derek_P, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. Derek_P

    Derek_P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the receiver supports THX processing, but it only has 5.1 output to speakers, but there is a preouts for 7.1, i tried using another receiver to power the surround back channels the extra +2 speakers, but i am getting no signal.. any suggestions?
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did you at least tell it the additional speakers were there in setup???? There must be a way to define what speakers are present in the system.
     
  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    That would be the obvious first thing to check (should be in your speaker setup menu in the receiver), but you also need to put the receiver into a mode that uses the rear center channels or play a movie that has a 6.1 (DD-EX, DTS-ES) track.
     
  4. Derek_P

    Derek_P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i put in a DTS movie, then a THX movie.. no go. there is no real option to enable or disable the surround rears.
     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    DTS is normally 5.1. If the movie is not a Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES matrix or discrete movie listed here, then it does not have 6.1 surround encoding. You should still be able to apply some kind of DTS:NEO6 or other 6/7ch DSP that will allow you to use the rear surrounds, but you have to turn them on first.

    What DVD player do you have and how do you have it connected?

    In your RECEIVER'S setup menu (on screen or on the front display) you need to tell the receiver you want to use the rear speakers because they are most likely turned off by default because they are not powered.
     
  6. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 23, 1999
    Messages:
    2,984
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Just a wild shot here, yes, as stated earlier, you have to tell the receiver to use those preouts or labeled as 8 channel input or 8 channel direct. However, the possible issue here is that it may be all or none. Usually just connecting the surround should automatically work, but if you are not getting anything when you hook up a seperate receiver to the pre-outs, then this may be an issue.
     
  7. Derek_P

    Derek_P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hrmm... i'll continue messing with this....

    in the mean time... what are some good examples of common 6.1 and 7.1 movies? make sure i have some more material to test with.
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My short list of DTS 6.1 titles....

    Die Another Day
    Demon Loves
    A.I.
    Goldmember
    Bad taste
    Beast Master
    Blade Trinity
    Bones
    Butterfly Effect
    Can't Stop the Music
    Chicken Run
    Day of the Dead
    Dead and Buried
    E.T.
    Evil Dead
    Final Destination 2
    Ghost in the Shell
    Galdiator
    Haunting
    Hill Have Eyes
    Invincible
    Jurassic Park III
    Knock Around Guys
    Leatherface
    Lord of the Rings (all of them)
    Man Who fell to Earth
    Maniac
    Minority Report
    Old Boy
    Open Water
    Opera
    Osterman Weekend
    Running Man
    Ruch Hour 2
    S1mone
    Saw
    Seven
    Star Struck
    Stuntman
    Suspirilia
    Termenator 2
    Top Gun
    Vigilante
    Watcher in the Woods
     
  9. Derek_P

    Derek_P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sweet thx [​IMG]

    ya, i got LOTR: return of the king going 6.1 nice [​IMG]

    turns out i had THX turned on, needed to be off :/
     
  10. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    Click on the link in my previous post, it has a list of ALL EX and ES movies and CDs / DVD-A (yes, DTS-ES CDs!)
     
  11. Derek_P

    Derek_P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes, awesome thanks man, but whats the diff between matrix and discrete?

    edit:

    DTS-ES Matrix is actually a 5.1-channel format with the back surround audio channel matrixed into those of the right and left surround. The back surround channel is matrixed in similar fashion as the front center channel is matrixed into the front right and left channels in the Dolby Surround Pro-Logic format. As such, the back surround channel is not discrete and therefore is not a true "6.1" format. DTS-ES Matrix is compatible with THX Surround EX equipment. DTS-ES Matrix is completely backwards compatible with DTS 5.1 equipment.


    DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 is a true 6.1-channel format, as the back surround audio channel is discretely encoded into the DTS bitstream. This format offers better spatialization over the surround channels for complete 360-degree sound localization and surround pans (i.e., movement of sound in the surround channels from one side to another). A data flag signals the decoder (usually part of the receiver or pre-amplifier) that the bitstream contains an extra discrete back surround channel. For backwards compatibility, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 back surround channel is ignored by DTS 5.1 equipment.
     
  12. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Derek,

    I believe I can shed some light on this, as I have a VR-5090, the next model up. Our receivers don't have 7.1 processing at all, it's 6.1. Yes, there is a left and a right surround back preamp output, and you CAN adjust the levels independently for each speaker. However, both outpus carry the same signal other than any level differences you create in the test tone setup. Also, if you want these speakers to be active, you have to do one of two things. For 6.1 discrete movies (DTS only), THX must be off, as you have noticed, and you'll get the 6th channel sent to both surround back speakers. For 5.1 EX movies with a matrixed surround back channel, THX must be ON, and must be set to THX Surround EX on. I have yet to find a EX encoded DVD that activated the surround back channels when the Kenwood is set to THX Surround EX Auto mode. If you have THX off, you won't get any surround back channel output from a source using a matrixed surround back channel.

    When I first got my receiver, I did a casual comparison between DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 (Fellowship of the Ring), vs using THX Surround EX on my receiver. Despite the fact that THX was off for the former and on for the latter, I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference, at least not in terms of surround performance as far as panning, placement, clarity, etc. I just leave THX Surround EX on all the time, so my surround back channels get all of the mono surround information all the time. I do use two surround back speakers to play that signal. It's mildly disappointing that you have to have THX on to use the surround back channels on everything except DTS-ES 6.1 discrte, but I like what THX does, so no worries for me.


    Aaron Gilbert
     

Share This Page