$600 Subwoofer Shoot-Out: SVS PB1-ISD vs. Hsu STF-3 – Test & Review (1 Viewer)

[Edward J M]

Hi John:

The boxes and tubes should sound almost identical if they have the same hardware, internal volume, tune point, vent size, etc.

This assumes of course the box is adequately braced and stiff and will not flex under pressure. Seeing as the PB1-ISD weighs a stout 70+ pounds, I doubt that would be an issue.

Craig reported his new PB2+ sounded better than his dual 25-31PC+, but that was probably due to incremental improvements to the latest generation Plus driver than any inherent advantage the box holds over the cylinder (or vice versa).

The 20-39PCi is tuned a bit deeper (20 Hz) than the PB1-ISD (22 Hz), and should have a bit better low end extension.

The "22-31PCi" (essentially a 25-31PCi with a 15" 22 Hz-tuned port) would probably be the closest cylinder match to the PB1-ISD.

The cylinder does present some challenges from a measurement and mic placement standpoint that the box does not, but that can always be worked around.

Ed

 

[terence]

Ed with these new improvements on the Plus drivers. Do you know what are the difference between the old and the new?

When did SVS upgrade the Plus drivers?

 

[steve nn]

Hi terence,
__________________________________________________ ________

Ed with these new improvements on the Plus drivers. Do you know what are the difference between the old and the new?

When did SVS upgrade the Plus drivers?
__________________________________________________ _________

Put it to you this way terence> Your dual setup equals about 1/2 of my three drivers Sorry I just had to say that.

 

[Lew Crippen]

It is pretty redundant by now, but this is one great review Ed. I am making yet another post (without anything really to add), because I want you to know how much your work is appreciated.

I think that you have found a very effective way of communicating your results, as well has having a sound testing methodology.

And I would think that both companies should be pleased as to the results. Two very fine products.

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

Awesome review! Time for a B4+ & Everest, don't you think?

 

[John Tami]

The Engineer in me says the Cylinder is at least as good if not better in most ways measurable...(one of the reasons I bought one, the other footprint..over the PB1-isd)

But it's everyone else that I imagine would love answers and or verification.....LOL!

 

[Edward J M]

Steve just couldn't resist, could he?

All kidding aside, I didn't know about it until Craig mentioned it over in his HT-SPOT sub review thread. He might have more details, as he referenced a conversation with Tom V.

I think I would approach it from the perspective that SVS is continually upgrading all of its components, not just the Plus driver in specific. Ron Stimpson has said as much many times. And I'm sure any improvements are strictly evolutionary in nature and don't represent a huge leap forward in performance.

Lew, you are very kind; thank you.

Gabriel, I half seriously mentioned the B4/Everest shoot-out in another thread. I think secretly we'd all like to see it, and I'm sure they would compare well. But who could tackle such a job? We're talking 600 pounds of subwoofer! I see you are getting a very nice in-room FR from the B4-Plus; extension to 16 Hz with no decline in sight as the curve exits the graph - nice!

John - as a fellow engineer, I agree; the cylinder geometry has advantages in strength/weight ratio that make it a great choice for a subwoofer enclosure. It's very popular with the DIY crowd, and I also lived with a 20-39PC+ for a year and hated to see the Tower Of Power leave the HT room - I was quite fond of it. Of course, the PB2+ and now the PB2-Ultra have considerably eased the pain. :b

 

[ScottCarr]

Not really sure if I noticed a significant difference between the PC+ and the PB2+ (other than the overwhelming power or the PB2+) as much as I have noticed the difference in the sound between the + driver compared to the Ultra driver.

 

[terence]

Thx Ed.

 

[steve nn]

In all honesty terence I would gladly give up one of my +'s for your dedicated HT room. It sure would make the HT life a little easier but we opted to stay put and pay off versus build yet another house.

When I said 1/2 in my prior post I meant to imply that I had the new and improved drivers and you didn't. I know this really isn't so but the bone was there so I just had to pick it up and throw it your way because your so fun to rib. There are so many with SVS products now and dual or more to boot, that my bragging rights are lost until maybe I pick up that fourth PLUS?

I recall seeing more than a few posts where Tom or Ron has mentioned in one way or another that their drivers/subs are always evolving. Sometimes actually at a cost to the company with no fanfare. I think Ed summed this up well with>
( And I'm sure any improvements are strictly evolutionary in nature and don't represent a huge leap forward in performance.) So I would say we can be confident we both are sitting good terence.

Maybe after Ed has rested up we might be able to talk him into pulling both drivers and telling us how much they individually weigh?

 

[Chris A H]

Ed,

Thanks so much for the great post and for making the time to do this right. This should be the poster child for how to do this kind of comparison. My only nit is that I prefer my PB1-ISD tan-granite finish to the basic black of the Hsu STF Series (I had a STF-2 for a short while).

BTW, I have heard much about the SoundHound Organ CDs and would like to get them. Can they be obtained on-line? Do you have a link?

Thx.

 

[Edward J M]

Good luck. I was fortunate to luck into a copy burned from the original download; mine is pristine in every respect. I made some copies off mine and they sucked because my burner is fragged. That guy should go into business selling that CD; it's a great demo piece. Try emailing Gordon Groff for starters.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Amazing, Ed. Next time I wanna come help.

 

[Rogelio D]

Hsu to the rescue over at the avs forums. lol

Quite the dissertation in the Subwoofer Reommendations? thread by you-know-who dissecting this review.

Just thought some of you may enjoy a really "good one"

 

[Edward J M]

Jack, you are welcome at my place anytime. You have consistently been a voice of reason/logic, and you have really advanced a great deal of knowledge on these boards (which I have always taken advantage of).

The PB2-Ultra review is up next. The coolest thing about that sub will be the before/after FR curves when the CV 1-180 phase control and the PEQ are optimized.

Ed

 

[JohnSP]

Hello -

Well done, Ed. Not only was your review technically excellent, it was very thoughtfully laid out and presented as well.

I'd been clicking around looking for a read worthy of this morning's mug of coffee, and I certainly found it! Good stuff.

Regards,

John

 

[terence]

Chris Soundhound is a regular over @ Sound and Vision Forums look him up, also the guys over there are really nice and will probaly send you one.

 

[terence]

Yeah i'm cool with what i have, it's just the improvements on the Plus driver is interesting.

 

[David_Rivshin]

Ed,
First off great comparison, it's nice when someone actually attempts to employ the lessons of the scientific method.
That said, I have one small critique to make, which I don't think effects the validity of the comparison, but is something you might want to keep in mind in the future.

My understanding of your methods for the frequency response measurements has it that you assume the ECM8000 has flat response down to 10Hz. In my experience this is not the case.
My (admittedly rough) measurements have it that the ECM8000 is down about .5-1dB from 25-20Hz, and falling off at a rate of about 24dB/Octave below 20Hz. My measurements only went down to 15Hz, as that was the usable limit of my equipment (a 20-39CS, original driver).

Quick explanation of how I got those numbers:
I ran my in-room frequency response measurement system with both my RS SPL meter, and the ECM8000 in the same location. I then applied the accepted (and oft-posted) correction factors for the SPL meter. Since the SPL meter and ECM8000 have different sensitivities, I added a flat correction factor to the SPL readings until 30-80Hz were about equal (they tracked each other to within .25dB, which is within the margin of error).
So obviously these numbers shouldn't be taken as gospel, but I'm pretty confident that the ECM8000 falls off rapidly below 20Hz given what I've seen. The major source of error in my numbers would be the RS SPL correction numbers which have been floating arround, so if those aren't accurate neither are my numbers. I have seen correction numbers for the ECM8000 floating around avsforum before, but I don't how those were arrived at. I recall an old thread in the DIY forum which related to this, but I don't think it ever came to a conclusion (I think I erroneously stated that the ECM8000 falls off below 50Hz there, which better measurements later showed was not the case).

-- Dave

 

[GrahamJW]

I visit the Sound and Vision forums frequently and inquired about the organ CD. Within a couple of days of asking I had one member sending me the 2 CDs. The tracks were online for download but have been taken off line. If you want material to test, audition, or just plain give your sub a work out, this is the music for you.

Try doing a search for the soundhoud ogran cd on the forum and you will get a few threads come up.

It may even give you an appreciation for Organ music

I also noticed that some users in the S&V forum converted the organ CD tracks to MP3 format. Don't do this to test your subs. MP3 format is a compression format that filters out frequencies that the human ear can't hear; this would probably include the low frequency stuff that you want to pump through your sub.

Cheers..John