6.1 with 5 speakers driven (1 Viewer)

[Jason GT]

Can 5 speakers, when coupled with a receiver capable of the 6.1 formats (DTS ES and DD-EX), 'phantom' a sixth speaker?

Clearly the effect won't be as discrete, but is it possible, and does it make a difference?

Regards --

J

 

[Chuck Kent]

ALL receivers that recognize 6.1 "fold" the rear center info into the 2 regular surrounds if the unit is setup with no rear center.

Would one consider it a "phantom" setup? I guess it depends on one's terminology. I do think it's fairly safe to say that anything that would have been sent to the rear center would be sent to both surrounds. I am certain that nothing is lost.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

Marantz 6300 manual says nothing about that. Are you sure all receivers "fold" ...
Regards

 

[Chuck Kent]

Yeah, they fold. (Or if you're not comfortable with my term fold, how about retain or blend?)

If they did'nt, you would be losing part of the signal. Both 6.1 DTS and DD discs do not lose any of the program if you stay as 5.1.

 

[AaronJB]

Re: Yamaha 5540 Reciever:

From Yamaha's website:

POWERFUL SOUND PROCESSING With powerful and varied sound processing, the HTR-5540 provides Dolby Digital, Dolby ProLogic II, and DTS Digital Surround decoding. Yamaha's Quad-Field CINEMA DSP allows enjoyment of Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES Matrix 6.1 sound formats in the ***Phantom mode (using 5.1 channels)***. The HTR-5540 provides 21 surround programs and offers a total of 41 surround environment variations.

))))))))))))))))))))))

As someone who does have a 6.1 set-up, I really can't see how this "phantom" mode would equal a true 6.1 set-up, but maybe the effect would be halfway decent, I don't know.

 

[AllanN]

I believe that the Pioneer VSX-811S has what is called a Virtual Surround Back mode. Ill check my manual when I get home to see exactly what it does.

 

[John Garcia]

In any case, phantom or not, the rear info is still played by the rear speakers in a 5.1 setup (basically the definition of EX).

My former setup was 6.1, but in my new place, I physically cannot have a rear center. The lack of the 6th speaker is very noticable on EX/ES material.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Yeah, they fold. (Or if you're not comfortable with my term fold, how about retain or blend?)

None of those terms really covers it, because most "6.1" mixes are simply 5.1 -- and a 5.1 setup just plays what's there. The sounds that would be routed to a rear center speaker stay in the left and right rears where they've been mixed in the first place. (And to answer the original question, yes, you can create a phantom rear center, though it will be very tightly tied to a "sweet spot").
Even in DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete, the basic mix is 5.1 with a matrixed rear center. When the decoder adds the discrete rear channel, it also uses the contents of that extra channel to filter out the matrixed information from the left and right rears.
M.

 

[Aaron Rosenfeld]

Even in DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete, the basic mix is 5.1 with a matrixed rear center.

That doesn't sound quite right. Now, granted, I don't know the technical definitions of DTS-ES, but it would seem to me that putting the 6th channel in not only the discrete channel, but also the other two surrounds would be a waste of space. Wouldn't that be redundant to have the data in both places? It would also muddy up the soundscape of the left and right surround, and any filter would tend to remove some of the data that was intended to be there. For example, if both the left surround and rear center were supposed to play the same sound, a filter like you described would remove it from the left and only play it from the center. Basically, if this is truly the way that they do it, it seems like a stupid way to do things. Do you have any data to backup your claims that this is how DTS-ES discrete works?

 

[Michael Reuben]

A DTS-ES 6.1-discrete decoder will play the discrete back channel. It will also subtract the discrete back channel out of the matrixed LS and RS channels, restoring the LS and RS channels as independent.

M.

 

[Aaron Rosenfeld]

Guess you're right, it's weird that they would do it that way.