$500 - $1000 5.1 speaker system (1 Viewer)

[MikeyWeitz]

Glad you are enjoying yours as much as I am mine ( I am jealous of that sub tho).
Phil I is the resident JBL pro around here tho!

 

[PatrickS]

JBL is definately a good speaker for the money. They are a great value. It's different world though when you start listening to speakers in speciality audio shops, many of which sell some brands like Phase Tech. and Paradigm, PSB, etc. where you get alot better quality for the money. The internet companies like Ascend and AV123 offer more too at least IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, like I said they are a great value. But years ago when I started to look "outside of the box" and saw what else was out there for about the same, or just a little more money, I was very surprised! And even more surprised when I heard how good these other speakers sounded compared to what's available at BB and CC!

I'll give you an example. BB sells the Pio 1014 for $499 unless it's on sale. The ELite 52TX can easily be had for about $700 (including tax) from an authorized dealer, and the 54TX for $800. They are both considerably better AVR's and for not that much more money. Similar stuff can be had in speakers and all electronics. It's out there, you just have to do a little leg work to find it! But believe me it's VERY worth it!

Best Regards,
Patrick

 

[ray tubach]

Well, you guys are all great with your recomendations and I honestly appreciate it way beyond what I'm able to express with the keyboard. Let me just say that having not been involved with choosing and buying audio gear for a very long time, it is a daunting task to find your way out of the preverbial woods when you're surrounded by ALL the different trees... you fellas have made it less like work and more like fun.

Mikey, your encouragement has caused me to realize something that I think I knew all along - that is, that I really WANTED to go with JBL before I even started looking. Many years ago I was involved with live show production and studio recording and JBL was the only game in town. And Phil, you reminded why I was instantly drawn to the sound when I heard it - that is, that it really IS the "voice of the theater", with over 70% of professional installations consisting of JBL equipment - even though all the sales guys were recommending a Klipsch or Polk, or Athena speakers with Yamaha receiver system. These all sounded good, I guess,,, but I never could be 100% comfortable with the decision and felt I had to keep looking for something else. Continuing with the "lost-in-the-woods" analogy, I felt like I was just circling around and coming back to the same spot when I went out and listened to different systems in different showrooms with different amps and different people doing the setup, etc. But I felt I owed it to myself to check out all the other recommendations and simply got more confused. Anyway, I like the simplicity of the E Series and it's ability to mix and match within the group.

Phil, I have been following your discussions and read your reviews and visited your links, and I initially had a bit of concern over mixing sizes of front and rears but I think because of the room restricitions - 14W x 18L and I MUST put the sofa against the rear wall - that a stronger presence was needed up front. I'm thinking I want a floor speaker up front so unless I can hear the E90 or E100, I think I'll stick with the E80 for mains, the EC35 for a center and E10's for surrounds unless they're overpowered, in which case, I'll just move them into mid surround position and start over in the rear.

Anyway, thanks for all your patience, suggestions, and the fish.

RT

 

[PatrickS]

Ray,

In case you missed my last post (which posted right before yours), you might want to consider what I said. If not I'm sure you'll be happy either way, especially because you won't have any idea what your missing. I know I didn't when I first started this hobby!

Best Regards,
Patrick

 

[ray tubach]

Patrick, yeah, I guess I did miss your post. In any case, I know you are right but I had trouble doing what you recommend. First of all, very few places carry more than a couple lines of speakers and they are hard to differentiate when you have to travel between places to listen to different brands.

It's hard for me to "remember" a sound - I just try to identify and locate sound elements within the sonic image when I am listening, and I evaluate by how near or far, tone, and presence of that element. Some speakers sound wonderful - very smooth and creamy until you do an A/B switch and realize you weren't even hearing something that you suddenly do now. This type of comparison is very easy between speakers in a group at BB and less easy between brands.

I did audition the Klipsch, Athena, and Polk, as well as Infinity and Mirage but I find I'm drawn to the sound and accuracy of the JBL monitors. I don't know, it's a familiar territory to me and I feel like I'm comning home, so to speak. I'm kinda comfortable there and I think it only remains to choose what speakers within the group to use.

I do thank you for taking the time to respond, and I do value your suggestion.

my best to you,

RT

 

[PatrickS]

Ray,

I completely understand. Enjoy your new setup, this hobby can be real fun!

Best Regards,
Patrick

 

[AlanZ]

Patrick......it is too late for him, now.....save your strength.....there is another......

Ray, congrats on your decision to go with JBL. I hope that they bring you many years of excellent viewing in your home

I did want to point out something, though: Perhaps others (JBL owners definitely lol) will disagree with me, but what makes the systems in theaters so impressive is the fact that they are very powerful and very loud. I would venture to bet that the majority of people who post on this forum and have gone through the trouble of auditioning various lines of speakers have not only attempted to have better QUALITY of sound than what you hear in a theater, but they've succeeded in doing so. Obviously to a large degree this is a subjective thing. But that's the main reason that you'll hear people advising you to at least go listen at a 'real' audio shop. You may realize, as Patrick said, that for the same or a little more money you can have an amazing improvement in quality.

With that said, what matters most is what sounds good to your ears. There are very few right or wrong answers in this hobby.......so please take our comments as constructive and not critical. And I sincerely do hope you get much enjoyment out of your system

 

[MikeyWeitz]

No offense Patrick, but I think $499 and 800 is a BIG price difference.
1014 can be had for $399, so 399 and 700 is still a BIG difference. Almost double.

As far as JBL, are they the best? NO way, not even close, BUT they were within my budget (and not many were), even ascend, axiom, etc. Aside from the fact that you can not demo any of the online stuff. For me, I liked them better, as a package then anything I was able to demo locally, that was in my very limited budget. Onix Rockets better in my price range? Maybe, but I wasn't taking a $100 chance (shipping) to find out.
I paid $358 for my pair of JBL E80's delivered.
What is even close to that in price for towers?

Have any of you actually listened to a JBL setup in a proper listening environment?
My WHOLE system cost me about $1200 (including my Pio 1014) and that is for 7.1 speakers
What could I have gotten better for the $$$? For $2000? Yeah probably, but I did not have another $800 to spend.
Oh, the fact that they were JBL meant nothing to me. I went in to demo some other speakers and wound up hearing the JBL's and liked them. Wasn't a "brand" thing for me.

WOuld I like some Martin Logan's or Maggies like Alan, sure. Can I afford them now? No, still saving for a house which is no easy feet in the Metro NYC area these days.

Some people can only spend so much.
Phase Tech setup you suggested nice? Yes, but don't forget to include at least another $100 for a nice pair of stands for the fronts.

 

[DorianBryant]

I have been to numerous specialty shops and done numerous comparisons. I have A/B some much more expensive speakers to the JBL's that did not sound as good. Sure there may be better speakers but it sounds like the JBL's get slammed simply because they are sold at BB while "other" brands are heralded as they are sold at "specialty" stores.

The JBL's are a great speaker and even better with the fact they can be purchased at such a discount. I use the S38II's for mains in the living room. Find me a better "bookshelf" for under a grand. On stands, these sound incredible and will rival many floorstanders. I think these will end up a "classic" much like the L100's.

I recently picked up 2 prs. of JBL 940's which are similar to the E100's and they sound fantastic. Better than the $1200 Snell's I just sold.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Again, listing the MFG's SPEC, then the Sound & Vision Objective Benchmark ...

Phase Technology MFG Published SPEC's
Velocity V-10
• Frequency Response 35 Hz - 20 Hz +/- 3 dB
• Woofer 7" VDT™ Vapor Deposited Titanium woofer
• Tweeter patented 1" soft dome tweeter

Velocity V-6
• Frequency Response 56 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 3 dB
• Woofer/Midrange 5-1/4" VDT™ Vapor Deposited Titanium woofer, 5-1/4" VDT™ bass radiator with butyl rubber surrounds
• Tweeter patented 1" soft dome tweeter

Velocity V-Surround
• Frequency Response 56 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 3 dB
• Woofer/Midrange5-1/4" VDT™ Vapor Deposited Titanium woofer with butyl rubber surround
• Tweeter dual patented 1" soft dome tweeter

Sound & Vision APRIL 2004
PHASE TECHNOLOGY Velocity V-10 System
Frequency Response (Tested system $1,925)
Velocity V-10 front left/right.... 35 Hz to 16 kHz ±3.8 dB
Velocity V-6 Center............... 93 Hz to 16.7 kHz ±2.6 dB
Velocity Surround................. 107 Hz to 8.9 kHz ±3.4 dB
HV-1000 subwoofer................. 33 to 124 Hz ±3.4 dB

=======

JBL MFG Published SPEC's
NORTHRIDGE E SERIES - E20
• Frequency Response (-3dB): 68Hz - 20kHz
• High-Frequency Driver: 3/4" Titanium-laminate dome with EOS™ waveguide
• Low-Frequency Driver: 5" PolyPlas™ cone

NORTHRIDGE E SERIES - EC35
• Frequency Response (-3dB): 75Hz - 20kHz
• High-Frequency Driver: 3/4" Titanium-laminate dome with EOS™ waveguide
• Midrange Transducer: 3" (75mm) PolyPlas
• Low-Frequency Driver: Dual 6" PolyPlas™ cones

NORTHRIDGE E SERIES - E10
• Frequency Response (-3dB): 75Hz - 20kHz
• High-Frequency Driver: 3/4" Titanium-laminate dome with EOS™ waveguide
• Low-Frequency Driver: 4" PolyPlas™ cone

Sound & Vision APRIL 2004
JBL Northridge E Series E20, EC35, E10 & E250P
Frequency Response (Tested system $1.803 w/dual woofers)
JBL E20 front left/right..... 88 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.6 dB
JBL EC35 Center.............. 89 Hz to 19.6 kHz ±3.3 dB
JBL E10 surround............. 88 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.9 dB
JBL E250P subwoofer.......... 33 to 79 Hz ±2.8 dB

=======

JBL does it again, providing excellent wide range performance for a reasonable price!!!

Personally, it would bother me that the speakers I own didn't reach @ the very least between 18.4 to 20 kHz frequency around me in my 5.1/6.1 HT SETUP!!!

Phil

 

[JoeyR]

Money was a big deal for me too, to get a center and 2 sets of GOOD bookshelf speakers for 350 dollars is cheap, plus throw in the 1014 at BB, I got it for 430 and thats with the 4 year warranty, at 780 thats not bad for in my opinion a system that does exactly what I wanted.

Of course the SVS at 480 and about 300 dollars worth of cables kinda throws it some but I have a system that I am very happy with.

Also not big on some of the other systems that have been listed because I tried ever local A/V store we have and I dont have the time to buy speakers and return them if I dont like them when they have to be shipped. Also I bought my setup piece by piece not all at once so that is another consideration.

Still gonna eventually get a set of E10s for rear surround when I get the extra money.

 

[AlanZ]

Mikey:
I don't think anyone here is trying to say JBL is crap. Rather, we are simply trying to promote the idea of visiting some smaller audio shops and listen to brands other than what you can find in BB/CC. It has no bearing on me, or Patrick, or you, or anyone else what Ray decides to do. But the guy came for advice, and a lot of us who have seen the benefit of taking some time at a shop that is specific to home audio/video can't help but try and advise him to at least increase the length of his short list.

As for me and my Maggies, I honestly did not spend very much on them. I had a killer Paradigm Studio (100s, 20s) set-up that I loved but had to sell due to an unexpected divorce. The Maggies I have now (MMGs, MMG-Ws) were less than $1000 ($849, to be exact). The only reason I didn't recommend them to Ray (even though I feel pretty confident that they would best the JBLs he's looking at) was because you'd need something with more juice than the Pioneer 1014. But listen, I'm all for value. If you got your whole system, including the receiver, for $1200 I think you did great, bro. I just wanted to encourage the guy to take a look around......if I hadn't done that, I'd have never discovered such wonderful speakers as Paradigm, PSB, Energy, Monitor Audio, Magnepan, etc.

 

[PatrickS]

MikeyWeitz, and others,

No offense taken whatsoever. I understand where you are coming from completely. The JBL's and the 1014 for that matter are a very good components at their price point (retail). Some of the best out there, in fact. I have friends that had the S38II's and one that currently owns the E30/10 setup (but is getting ready to upgrade). They like many of you enjoyed them alot. But found other speakers that they enjoyed better for not that much more money. When I first really started to get serious in this hobby (about 8 years ago), I owned some good Infinity floorstanders from CC. I believe they were something like RS4's (or their predessesors), and I really enjoyed them for a couple of years. Then I descovered it was worth some extra $ and time for me to look outside the BB's and CC's of the audio world. All I can say is it was worth it to me. Is it for everyone? Of course not. Contrary to what some believe though the differences in sound quality can be much more than subtle (and can actually be dramtic), IMHO. Of course like DorianBryant pointed out you can actually pay alot more and get alot less! That's where leg work and time investment come in. Many don't have the time either, I understand that as well.

With that said, I was just trying to point out that there are other options, and not for alot of extra $. I understand that $200-$300 difference is alot of money. But, deals can be had and if you are already going to "pony up" $1000-$1500 for a system, it "maybe" worth one's while to wait a little and save up some more cash.

I'm just saying there are alot of other "good deals" out there that's all (sometimes theay are hard to find)! Also, alternatively, as many get deeper in this hobby they decide they don't have to have everything brand new! That's where you can get extremely great deals on places like Audiogon. Yes people have had some bad experieces on these sites, but the majority of deals are an absolute success if you look at users feedback (not like Ebay). People that usually sell on audigon are very reputable, but there's always "one in every croud" of course. Over the years I have had one bad experience on Audiogon with over 20 deals that were positive! FWIW, I got my current Phase Tech. PC3.1II's which retail for $1200 a pair for $600. And having both my friend (who use to own the S38II's) compare directly the S38II's to the PC3.1II's, and it was not even close. The Phase Techs. Imaged better and threw out a much bigger 3-dimensional soundstage. But as we all know these things can be very subjective, many may very well like the JBL's better, and you would get no argument from me! Though be careful basing opinions on just store demo's, even hi-end shops don't necessarily have system setup properly in a good acoustic room.
If you go to audiogon right now, you will find that a 54TX was up for sale for $525, and is sold. Most likely for less than the asking price. Here's the link:54TX SOLD!. I personally sold a 55TXi for $500 a few months ago and it was like brand new! How some guy got close to $900 recently, I'll never know (must have found a "sucker"), I can get a brand new 56TXi for less than that!

Anyway guys I'm sorry for ruffling feathers regarding the JBL's, etc., that was really not my intent. And I appologize for accidently doing so. The JBL/1014 combo, like I said for the money (retail), it's one of the best things going right now! I actually will be recommending the 1014 to a friend as he wants something he can return locally. And I understand this convienece/security point as well.

Wishing everyone Happy Listening, and again sorry for offending anyone!

Best Regards,
Patrick

 

[PatrickS]

Phil,

Just to be clear, there is alot more than "extended highs" to evaluate speakers. I like to evaluate speakers myself, not depend on biased magazines who are affraid companies will pull their ads if they do not get a good review. JBL is a part of a huge company, Harmon International. And they do tons of advertising in mags like S&V. Phase Tech. on the other hand is a small company and chooses not to do much advertising in mags. if at all! IMHO, the facts (specs.) are usually the only thing of real value in those reviews as far as I'm concerned, and even those have to be taken with a grain of salt as all rooms will vary in sound charcteristics. Especially when you consider how subjective speaker preferences can be! I personally like to use my Phase Tech PC3.1II's for music first, HT second. Everybody has a different "ear" as well! My hearing is way too sensitive to highs over 8kHz. Having heard the S38II's many times, "fatigue" sets in very quickly when listening to music. Their tweeters are very similar to the Titanium tweeter Axioms uses and I briefly owned (bought them before I found out just how sensitive my ears really were in the upper registers). Conversely, I have a brother who loves extended highs (to the point where some people might consider them "harsh"). Everyone has their own likes and dislikes! Highs that hurts someones ears, another person may love how they sound!

All of this is kind of a mute point though, because my main point was not for Ray just to look at Phase Tech. anyway. If you notice in my second post in this thread, I recommend looking at Paradigm and PSB too, and there are many others as well. All speakers will have different characteristics that different people will prefer! My main point was that there is ALOT more out there than just JBL! Sorry if you took offense to that or it was misunderstood! I'm glad you enjoy JBL so much. You may or may not like other speakers in their realtive price range if you had a chance to hear them in your room. There are hundreds of speaker lines out there, if you found one you and others like, cool..... Others may find a better value with a different speaker line that may have characteritics they prefer and JBL may not have!

This goes against what I usually believe, but again this was not the point of my post as I have said earlier. But since you cut out "snipets" from magazines to bolster your argument to show some deficiencies (as far as you are concerned at least) with the Phase Tech. Teatro line. By the way I don't see any of JBL's line-up from the S38II series down being sold in any High End Audio stores like you will find Phase Tech. all over the country.
Anyway, here is a "snipet from a 2001 Stereophile review of the S38:
To me the qualites that Perry Sun describe here and the ones that I personally experience with the PC3.1II's, are much more important than having extended highs that (in my case) hurt my ears and cause "listener fatigue". And as the reviewers of the Teatro 6.5 center pointed out, just because it had a "warmer" sound, did not mean the detail was not there. In all the Phase Tech. stuff I've owned this IMHO is true. With the Top of the line PC series, the detail is there in spades, and is truly sweet! To be clear on the S38II review in S&V, at around 18kHz-20kHz it is around 2dB "hot" which in some cases can induce "ringing". And if you look at the graphs of the 3 speakers in that review, which speaker has the flatest response between 1kHz and 16kHz? The Phase Tech. V-10 (about +/- 2dB).

Are the Phase Tech. speakers perfect? For me yes (at least the PC 3.1IIs), for you no!
Are the JBL's perfect? For you maybe, for me no!

But this is quite a bit off topic from my main point, I just want to clarify my position regarding your reply to my first post.

P.S. My previous post to MikeyWeitz explaines things pretty well and expands on why I think it's beneficial to look at many different speakers lines, used and new!

I would hope that one could recommend a speaker in a thread like this without the attacking of a certain brand. In the years I've been on the forums if someone recommends to a poster a particular speaker that I don't like. I may give the reason's I don't like it (from personal experience), but I will always qualify it by saying that is just how I feel about the speaker and I know others will and do like it just as much as I don't. Not everyone is going to like what I like, and not everyone is going to like what you do. Lets just leave it at that!

I Hope you understand where I'm coming from on all of this, as I do understand where you are coming from!

Very Best regards,
Patrick

 

[jasonBarczew]

ROOKIE HELP......I'm trying to "research"......and as I have found out from your extensive website, "learn" what a good home theater speaker system is. There's alot I have to learn.

I came here to research and find the best speaker system for my yamaha r-v1103 receiver. I know that the receiver isn't that great, but it's what i have to start with for now and have a budget of around $600 for speakers.

I'm learning that there is alot to choose from and I'm asking for help from someone to point me in a direction to help me learn from speaker system reviews. Any recommendations on a speaker system? Here's a stupid question, but what does SVS stand for that everyone is referring to?


thanks
Jason

 

[Brian.J]

I don't mean to de-rail this thread but I was under the impression, mainly from reading the AVSForum, that the Pioneer 1014TX is basically an ELITE 52Tx with a few features disabled. Features that the average person will never need thus negating the entire $300 difference. That said my view is probably biased being that I just got a 1014 for $290 from BB. As for the JBL speakers, I heard them at BB while I was looking for a new receiver and I was really impressed by how they sounded. With the prices on-line I think they're a steal.