5.1 Sound on Concerts

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Ravi K, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. Ravi K

    Ravi K Supporting Actor

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    A lot of concert DVDs feature 5.1 sound. I can understand if these are fairly recent concerts where DVD or home video is a consideration, and the producers recorded for stereo or surround. But what about older concerts from the 60s through the 80s? How were they recorded?
     
  2. David Allen

    David Allen Stunt Coordinator

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    Some were recorded in mono, some in stereo. Oftentimes they had stage-mics and separate crowd microphones.
     
  3. Ryan L. Bisasky

    Ryan L. Bisasky Second Unit

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    or many times (the hendrix and led zeppelin dvd's) they were either recorded in mono, and had channel's seperated (bass, guitar crowd ect)
     
  4. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

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    I thought most of the concert films from the late 60's up where recorded with multi-track mixers, similar to making records, just with a live setting and the extra mic for the crowd, than mixed into stero for the LP soundtrack, than downmixed to mono for theatrical release. Pretty much what Ryan said, now that I look at it.

    Seems that every book I've read about a band talks of the mixing truck parked outside the venue recording the concert.

    With these multi track stems (providing they exist), it would be pretty easy to make up a 5.1 mix, and is probably why this is happening on a regular bases.
     
  5. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Russell's right. Many were recorded with 24 trk. settups, like albums. That way you could make a mix after the event.
    In the credits, they'll often say this.
    Most if not all of the Queen concerts were done this way. A mobile 24 trk. recording settup.
     
  6. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    I must add though that a number of music and concert discs with 5.1 tracks are actually just the 2-channel soundtrack processed- usually Pro-Logic processed or adding a little echo to the surrounds, and often overdoing the subwoofer. This is my BIG pet peeve with music discs- if they can't or won't do a 5.1 remix that's fine, but I HATE when they advertise 5.1 sound on the cover and it turns out to just be a reprocessed soundtrack!! [​IMG] Just give me a good PCM stereo track instead!
     
  7. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

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    Completely agree!! I was going to put as much in my post, but work beconned (the bane of suring here when I'm supposed to be working!) You would like top think that this happens because the source multi-track are unavailable, but you know the real reason is they are cheap bastards and don't want to do a "true" 5.1 mix from the original tapes![​IMG]
     
  8. Eric_R.

    Eric_R. Stunt Coordinator

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    The coolest DTS 5.1 concert mix is the Live Aid. You can hear the crowd in the back and the music is seperated in the front 3 channels. Makes you feel like you are in there. The Genesis Invisible Touch Tour DVD is another great mix plus in DTS.


    I know the DMB concerts were all from multitracks and mixed into 5.1 but some just come from the 2 track soundboard and just seperated. Those aren't that fun to listen to in 5.1.
     
  9. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Try the latest Queen concert DVD, Milton Keynes, 1982 tour. It's in DTS 96/24! If your amp can decode it. WOW!

    If you like Queen, that is... [​IMG]
     
  10. Steve Meskell

    Steve Meskell Second Unit

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    I guess the oldest material I have that was made into 5:1 is "The Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show". All they did was to add a "scream" track for the rears. The music is mono spread across the front. It isn't that bad. The next "earliest" true 5:1 mix is the Led Zeppelin DVD. This is a truly amazing mix.

    Some do not like when the instruments are placed in all the speakers...like the Eagles or Steely Dan DVD's...I love it [​IMG]
     
  11. David Allen

    David Allen Stunt Coordinator

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    For a really aweful 5.1 music experience, check out (please don't) the Rush Rio concert DVD. Never before has a lead vocalist been so butchered by a mix.
     
  12. Mark Lucas

    Mark Lucas Second Unit

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    Heck, most 5.1 remixes of movies are done this way. Vague echo in the rears, bass sent to the LFE, dialogue centered, etc. Just give us the uncompressed stereo LPCM track, you lousy sound mixers!
     
  13. David Allen

    David Allen Stunt Coordinator

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  14. David Allen

    David Allen Stunt Coordinator

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  15. David Allen

    David Allen Stunt Coordinator

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    Quote:
    Heck, most 5.1 remixes of movies are done this way. Vague echo in the rears, bass sent to the LFE, dialogue centered, etc. Just give us the uncompressed stereo LPCM track, you lousy sound mixers!
    ------------------------------

    Anyone who reads this forum regularly, or works in post-production for DVD (for Studio projects)can tell you that your statement is only slightly accurate. While this may be ONE method for achieving a 5.1 upmix, it's not the only way, certainly not the preferred way, and when there are stems involved- it's a whole new adventure. Please don't lambast in such a broad stroke just because you bought one or two bad mixes. It's the age of the film, the source elements available, and the talent of the re-mixer that determine how "good" a re-mix turns out.
     
  16. Mark Lucas

    Mark Lucas Second Unit

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    Of course it's the talant of the remixer and source elements available that determine the quality of a remix. It's also the intent of the project. Like is the intent of spreading Dolby Stereo to 5.1 because it would better reproduce the soundtrack than a straight LPCM track or because a 5.1 remix would be another feature to put on the back of the dvd box? I think there's a reason why so many people have held onto their laserdiscs just for the uncompressed PCM soundtrack.
     
  17. Jan H

    Jan H Cinematographer

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    "Check out (please don't) the Rush Rio concert DVD. Never before has a lead vocalist been so butchered by a mix"

    Totally agree. Musically and performance-wise, this is an incredible DVD, but visually (non-anamorphic) and sonically (what David said) this is a pathetic release. The boys better re-do this one.

    For a great one (though the DTS track is a bit hot), try the Steely Dan Jazz Rock Lounge DVD. Freakin' phenomenal-sounding.

    I always liked the Alice in Chains MTV unplugged DVD, too. Very natural sounding acoustic guitars. I can't say for sure, though, whether it's 5.1.
     

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