5.1=No sound from subwoofer! Help!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Moulis, Aug 30, 2002.

  1. Moulis

    Moulis Auditioning

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    The model of Integrated AV Amplifier: TA-VE150 (Sony).

    When i connect my dvd player with the 5.1ch output to the amplifier, to the 5.1ch input, my subwoofer is not playing (or i thing the sound is very very slow)

    With the DVD 2ch connection it works fine! (from the player to the DVD 2ch of the amplifier.

    At the DVD player menu i have these:


    Analog Out Digital Out
    AC3 2 channel (or 6 channel) PCM RAW or Off
    DTS off (don't have dts on the amplifier) Raw

    When i choose the 6 channel option the digital out is going off.

    Also, in the Menu "More Audio" i have these:
    Prologig=ON
    Subwoofer=ON

    The player contains a dolby digital (AC-3) decoder.
    And the amplifier manual say's that if i have a dvd player with a dolby digital (AC-3) decoder i can connect it.
     
  2. Richard Harvey

    Richard Harvey Stunt Coordinator

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    Make sure your speakers are set to "small" with appropriate crossover. It may be that if you have speakers on "large" that no signal is being passed to the sub (though I don't know why 2-chan stereo would be working).

    Rich
     
  3. Moulis

    Moulis Auditioning

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    I don't think i can set to "small" the speakers (or even to Large)
    I don't see any option in the amplifier for that.
    I have bottons on the integrated amplifier, for TV, VIDEO, DVD 2ch and a botton for the 5.1

    The other bottons on the amplifier are:
    The "Center mode" for: Wide, Normal, 3 stereo, Phantom.
    The "Surroud mode" for: Pro Logic, C. Studio, Simulated.

    A botton for the BASS BOOST (on the remote)
    The Effect/Delay (for Small, Medium and Large delay)(on the remote)
    The Test tone and for the level of the speaker's (on the remote)

    When i choose the 5.1 botton, the other bottons don't work (for example: the volume for the level of the speaker's (only the general volume working), the delay effect, the bass boost or any other option about the "Center mode" and the "Surround mode".

    What is the problem?

    Also, when you say: "Make sure your speakers are set to "small" with appropriate crossover", what do you mean? :/

    "The Sub is an ACTIVE Subwoofer"
     
  4. Geoff S

    Geoff S Stunt Coordinator

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    Typically all receivers or pre-pros will have an option for the ability of the main speakers, i.e. LARGE or SMALL. Large means full range, 20hz-20,000hz (actual may vary) and Small is the most used option meaning something around 80hz-20,000hz (using 80hz as an example since it is the most used crossover, sometimes it can from 40hz to 150hz), and then the crossover is set so anything below 80hz is directed to the sub.

    Are you using a 6 channel analog input from the DVD to the amp? If so does the DVD player have its own bass managment where you can adjust different parameters (crossover is pre directed before going to the amp)?

    From what you wrote I am understanding this is a 5.1 ready amp (Not a true Dolby Digital one) in which the Dolby Digital decoding and processing must be done by the DVD player? If so try turning Pro Logic off, selecting a 5.1 audio track on a DVD, and set the amp for 5.1 and see what happens.
     
  5. Richard Harvey

    Richard Harvey Stunt Coordinator

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    Hmm, your second post does seem to imply that this is not a discrete 5.1 receiver/amp, but rather a ProLogic 5.1 "ready" receiver. If that is the case, it seems to simply be a wiring issue from your DVD player to the receiver (as Geoff suggests), or possibly a hardware problem with the .1 out on your DVD player. Also, make sure you are only playing DD 5.1 tracks, not dts 5.1 tracks -- your DVD player only supports AC-3 (Dolby Digital), not dts (most DVD players at best only pass dts information to the receiver for decoding, but don't decode themselves due to added cost of the decoding hardware/license).

    So to double-check your setup, make sure the sub/LFE output from the DVD is going into the .1/sub/LFE input on your receiver. This should then be passed directly to the sub. It might help to play an Avia or Video Essentials DVD with an isolated subwoofer/LFE track so you can focus simply on that output and not have to guess when/if you are getting signal into the sub.

    Rich
     
  6. Richard Harvey

    Richard Harvey Stunt Coordinator

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    Oh, forgot to answer your question: for discrete 5.1 receivers/amps, you usually get to set LARGE or SMALL speakers which simply is telling the receiver whether each speaker will handle it's own bass output (LARGE), or whether you want all low frequencies passed to the sub (SMALL). If using SMALL, you then usually have the option of setting the crossover threshold, usually 80, 100, or 120Hz. Since most subs operate better somewhere between the 20-100Hz range, and most speakers operate best in the 80-20kHz range, setting the crossover is letting you choose the breaking point of when a signal is sent to one speaker over the other. If your ranges overlap, then you can experiment with the 80-120 range to see what gives you the best bass response.

    Rich
     
  7. Moulis

    Moulis Auditioning

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    To Geoff S for the: "Are you using a 6 channel analog input from the DVD to the amp? If so does the DVD player have its own bass managment where you can adjust different parameters (crossover is pre directed before going to the amp)?"

    Yes i use the 6 channel analog output from the DVD to the amp and the DVD player have an option "Subwoofer=ON or OFF"

    I have the DVD player output 5.1 direct to the 5.1 Aplifier input (6 cables). From the Amplifier a cable (subwoofer output) is going to the subwoofer and the others to the center e.t.c.

    Ok it's working now, i turn on the Subwoofer=ON option and the Prologig=ON for one more time from the DVD player.
    I change the Analog Out AC-3 to the 6 channel option.

    The subwoofer it's working. But i have to turn the volume to the max (from the Subwoofer) to hear it.

    What am i doing wrong?
    With the 2ch output from my DVD player to the 2ch input of the Aplifier (with all the speaker cables output to the same possition), i get more bass from the sub.
     
  8. Moulis

    Moulis Auditioning

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    To the Richard Harvey for the:
    "Oh, forgot to answer your question: for discrete 5.1 receivers/amps, you usually get to set LARGE or SMALL speakers which simply is telling the receiver whether each speaker will handle it's own bass output (LARGE), or whether you want all low frequencies passed to the sub (SMALL). If using SMALL, you then usually have the option of setting the crossover threshold, usually 80, 100, or 120Hz. Since most subs operate better somewhere between the 20-100Hz range, and most speakers operate best in the 80-20kHz range, setting the crossover is letting you choose the breaking point of when a signal is sent to one speaker over the other. If your ranges overlap, then you can experiment with the 80-120 range to see what gives you the best bass response."


    I don't have any option to the Amplifier or to the DVD for the crossover. I can't change the range of the frequencie.
    I can't change the speakers to Smaal or Large.

    As i say in my other message:
    "I don't think i can set to "small" the speakers (or even to Large)
    I don't see any option in the amplifier for that.
    I have bottons on the integrated amplifier, for TV, VIDEO, DVD 2ch and a botton for the 5.1

    The other bottons on the amplifier are:
    The "Center mode" for: Wide, Normal, 3 stereo, Phantom.
    The "Surroud mode" for: Pro Logic, C. Studio, Simulated.

    A botton for the BASS BOOST (on the remote)
    The Effect/Delay (for Small, Medium and Large delay)(on the remote)
    The Test tone and for the level of the speaker's (on the remote)

    When i choose the 5.1 botton, the other bottons don't work (for example: the volume for the level of the speaker's (only the general volume working), the delay effect, the bass boost or any other option about the "Center mode" and the "Surround mode".
     
  9. Selden Ball

    Selden Ball Second Unit

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    Selden
    Moulis,

    From your description, either you need to upgrade your receiver to one that can decode DD and DTS 5.1 digital audio and which includes bass management, or you need to upgrade your DVD player to one that includes bass management.

    Bass management is the feature which lets you designate speakers as "large" or "small". The "large" speakers will be sent full range audio sounds, from the lowest frequencies to the highest. "Small" speakers will be sent the higher frequencies. Their low frequencies will get redirected to the subwoofer.

    When it receives a two-channel signal, your ProLogic receiver is redirecting the lowest frequencies from all of the other speaker channels to the subwoofer. Unfortunately, it does not redirect the low frequencies when you use the separate 5.1 analog inputs. In other words, no bass management is available for those inputs.

    (This is true of most receivers. A few very expensive high-end preamp/processors include the ability to apply bass management to their separate 5.1 analog inputs. This is why Outlaw Audio makes their ICBM external bass management unit, which sells for about US $250.)

    From your description, your DVD player does not include any bass management, either.

    Without bass management, each speaker channel gets exactly what is in the associated track on the DVD. It is as if all of the speakers were set to be "large". For example, the subwoofer only gets whatever low frequencies were recorded in the ".1" Low Frequency Effects channel. Many music discs have no ".1" audio track at all. Their "5" channels all include many low frequency sounds, however. If your front and surround speakers cannot reproduce those low frequencies, you won't be able to hear them.

    I hope this clarifies things a little.
     
  10. Moulis

    Moulis Auditioning

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    Great replay, thank's.
    I think i need to upgrade my receiver with something that includes bass management.
     

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