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4802 or 5800 (1 Viewer)

Andrew P

Second Unit
Joined
Nov 2, 1999
Messages
304
I had a 5800 (before I upgraded) and I thought was a good receiver. I could definitely tell the difference between that and some lower model Denon's, but I am not going to argue with someone if they say they cannot hear the difference.
I think the difference between the 4800 and 5800 was slight to my ears. Im sure everyone is different though. I also think most people who listen to both have a bias (ie:they know which receiver is which). If I knew I was listening to two receivers and one was $500 more than the other, before I even listened I would think that more expensive one would have to sound better.
Andy
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
20
The 5800 has not only "24 bit, 96 kHz A/D conversion •" but also Analog Devices AD-1853 24 bit, 192 kHz highest resolution DACs" > Now the question I still have is... will my Technics DVD A10 be able to provide me with it's promised 192kHz resolution performance if I go with the 4802 which only has 24 bit /96kHz?
How tough is it to find source material? And why is it so hard to discover whether 192kHz actually means anything or not?
Thanks to everyone who's posted replies...
Doug
 

Jeremy Hegna

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 28, 2000
Messages
812
"Speakers make the biggest impact on sound quality, amps, DACs and cable makes little to no audible/detectable impact on sound quality."
Jaleel, If you want to get scientific....this is your opinion and should be stated so. I agree, speakers are a HUGE part of the sound, but only equal to that of the amplification behind them. I was showing my wife a picture of the new B&W 800 Signature tonight. If I was to buy a pair of these @ $20k and attempt to power them with a $500 receiver, none of this "impact on sound quality" will matter. It is a 50/50 split on the importance of these two elements (amps/speakers), IMO. When you discuss DACs, cables, interconnects...I will agree that they don't have as significant an impact on the overall sound quality. They do, however, have an impact.
"Instead of spending 3K on the 5800, one well would be better advised to purchase the 4800 $1,300 and saving that extra $1,700 on some top quality speakers. That is if you care about more bout sonic performance than features."
Again, this is your opinion and "being better advised" is a crock of bull. If one does not appreciate the sound of the 4800, but prefers that of the 5800...HE will be better advised to buy what HE wants....not what you and I advise him to "be a better decision." There is a difference in the sound of the two receivers and as you have admitted, you've never done a DBT with the two receivers. You've not spent 6 months with them...like some of us. If your DBT knowledge states that one can be bias to the sound if the makes are known....who's to say your bias wasn't to the negative because you believe that all amps sound the same at matched levels?
Subjective feelings of a product are fact to the buyer. The fact is, if he likes one better than the other...it's the one he/she should buy. Whether it's sound quality (which should be #1 with anyone on this forum for any length of time should believe), build quality, features, cosmetics...it doesn't matter. It's a hobby and should be shopped as one. DBTs are a non-essential part of the HT buying equation. A/B comparisons are essential and a hobbyist WILL be able to recall sonic memory for much longer than some seem to think around these parts. If this is what you spend your time doing....your ears will adapt.
Jeremy
 

PatrickM

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 10, 2000
Messages
1,138
Doug,
If your referring to DVD-Audio titles playing on your DVD-A10 then the DAC's on the 5800 don't matter because you can't output the digital signal off of a DVD-A player at present.
There are D.A.D.'s produced by Classic Records that output 24/96 signals through the DVD players digital output but that's about it. I don't know of any D.A.D.'s with 24/192.
Patrick
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Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
20
Here's a link to at least one company that sells Classical music (Bach) in 24 bit /96Khz in 6 channel and 24bit /192Khz in Stereo...
http://www.netten-world.com/newnet.htm
If the DVD-A player I have has 2 channel analogue outputs at 24/192, do I even need to run the signal to the Reviever's decoder...? In other words, isn't the DVD-A's decoder chip already doing the work so that the amp can simply amplify the sound?
[Edited last by Doug Broccone on August 31, 2001 at 01:41 AM]
 

TomH

Second Unit
Joined
Jun 13, 2001
Messages
267
Michael,
It sounds like you are one of the few people who has the luxury of being able to compare the units.
Have you had the chance to compare the three using them as prepros with the same external amplifier? I am really curious as to whether the preamp sections or the onboard amps are responsible for the sound difference. Most of the physical differences mentioned above would relate to amplifer performance.
Thanks
Tom
 

PatrickM

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 10, 2000
Messages
1,138
Doug,
The site you listed is showing DVD-A titles which are capable of 24/192 in stereo. As I said in my previous post, DVD-A's when played in a DVD-A player do not output anything from the digital outputs. The DVD-A player does the decoding and outputs it in analog format through the six channel outputs on the back of your DVD-A player.
So, the answer to your question is that the receiver does no decoding at all for DVD-A because the present standard does not allow for a digital output from a DVD-A player.
Therefore at this point the 5800 having 24/192 DAC's is a waste.
P.S. Thanks for that link. I was looking for some 24/192 stereo recordings. There are very few at the moment.
Patrick
------------------
If you live in Vancouver, B.C. or the surrounding areas, take a look at the Local Home Theater Forum Meets section for a Vancouver meet.
My DVD Collection
 

John-D

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 27, 2001
Messages
198
DBTs are a non-essential part of the HT buying equation. A/B comparisons are essential and a hobbyist WILL be able to recall sonic memory for much longer than some seem to think around these parts
I take it that these 'hobbyists' have super human abilities...
rolleyes.gif

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The things we own end up owning us
 

PatrickM

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 10, 2000
Messages
1,138
Doug,
I think you mixing some things up here. Your DVD-A player basically decodes the DVD-A disc by reading the disc, unpacking the MLP scheme and then converting the LPCM to an analog signal which comes out of the six channel analog outputs on the back of your DVD-A player. So the resolution on the DVD-A discs is fully realized at the analog outputs.
The downconverting I think your talking about is when some DVD players downconvert a 24/96 DVD-V audio track down to 24/48 like my old Toshiba 3109 did. This comes from the digital output which is not used at all when playing DVD-A's and yes you are correct in saying that it is the DVD-A player that forces this to happen.
As for the comparison of the 4802 and the 5800, I don't know about the build quality of a 4802 but my 5800 is impressive. I had to fix the front door hinge because a bracket broke in shipping so I opened up the unit and its built very nice. I come from an Operations background in the Telecom industry where we build 22 layer boards for high speed digital routers, etc. that cost well in excess of $50K and the quality of the 5800 may not be as good as that but still very good nonetheless.
As for the difference in DAC's, until a digital standard for DVD-A output is created and the players manufactured, you won't find any software that the 24/192 DAC's can decode.
Patrick
------------------
If you live in Vancouver, B.C. or the surrounding areas, take a look at the Local Home Theater Forum Meets section for a Vancouver meet.
My DVD Collection
 

chaz fifer

Agent
Joined
Jan 21, 2001
Messages
34
For the record,the 4802 IS UPGRADEABLE.I learned this from a Denon rep.
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"I'm trying to contain an outbreak and you're driving the monkey to the airport!"
 
W

Will

I'm waiting for an answer to my previous post
asking if the 4802 is available today at any
retailer.
 

Luis M

Second Unit
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Messages
282
What's Going up with this receiver? Wasn't it suppossed to be out this week? I can 't find it anywhere, We need to hear this thing and it is not showing up. Now I am hearing that is upgradable, I just heard on his forum some days ago that it was not. Which one is it?
 

Razvan V

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Messages
164
I talked to a Good Guys salesman, Good Guys has 36 4802 units in their warehouse, they should be available in their stores on September 6.
Razvan
 

PatrickM

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 10, 2000
Messages
1,138
Chaz,
As a 5800 owner waiting for an upgrade, I'll believe the 4802 is upgradable once it gets upgraded.
Patrick
------------------
If you live in Vancouver, B.C. or the surrounding areas, take a look at the Local Home Theater Forum Meets section for a Vancouver meet.
My DVD Collection
 

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