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45GB HD-DVD discs? Fact or Fiction? (1 Viewer)

DaViD Boulet

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Hey Max,

DD+ is not lossless, just better sounding than traditional "core" Dolby Digital.

Dolby True HD is Lossless (based on MLP) and there's also a lossless mode for DTS-HD.

Both formats will use variable bit-rate for video regardless of codec (MPEG2, VC1 or AVC) for the greatest efficiency, though you still have bandwidth (read rate) limitations on both formats that cap your max read rate given other data being simultaneously streamed (like audio). BD has 1.5 x the bandwidth/read-rate of HD DVD (that doesn't help much with MPEG2 on 25 gigs, but it will be an advantage when BD starts using VC1 and AVC or maybe with MPEG2 on dual-layer).
 

Sean Bryan

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Well, that's not really fair.

50 Gb BD IS part of the specs. A Warner Brothers compressionist who posts at AVS (CJplay) says BD 50 is coming later this year.

While none of this is "proof" that is is "real", it is at least reasonable to say that BD 50 could actually wind up being used this year. And I wouldn't consider it fiction, just something that seems difficult to pull off at the moment.

On the other hand, triple layer HD DVD is not part of the specs and there haven't been any suggestions from insiders such as Cjplay that it is somehow coming in the near future (at least none that I'm aware of with the same level of credibility). And it would only be appropriate for it to be added to the spec if players could be firmware upgraded to read them. And I'm not sure that is possible (maybe, but it seems unlikely).

I'd love to see triple layer become a reality for HD DVD, but it is probably too late and most certainly will be too late once there is more of a variety of players out there that wouldn't be able to read them if it were to be added later.
 

Kelly Grannell

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I personally think that 3 layers is going to be difficult to read in the future. Certain regular DVD players have problem with layer switching or sometimes the 1st layer peeled of fromt he 2nds layer. I can only imagine the horror with the addition of the 3rd layer.

Regardless, the capability of reading 2 layers are based on laser focusing system. So in theory to read the 3rd layer, a firmware upgrade is sufficient.
 

Rob_Walton

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Only if the assembly already has sufficient tolerances to adjust to focusing at this new depth. There's no reason for this to be the case, and financially it would make more sense to not have this built in redundancy. Since there's not even a spec for 45gb HD DVDs yet it seems highly unlikely the current machines have been built with thoughts of upgrades of this kind in their future. How would they decide what would be sufficient to include in the current players, and at what expense?
 

DaViD Boulet

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Correct,

Curious,

Those of you with HD DVD Players: Would you be adverse to Toshiba revamping the HD DVD spec at this time to include 45 gig discs even if it meant that your first-gen player might not be able to play certain future discs?

Short-term pain for long-term gain?
 

Paul_Scott

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the $500 buy in was low enough that I wasn't going to complain no matter what happened- as long as Warner at least released all the titles that were on that leaked list, before what ever was going to happen, happend.
I realize there is still a greater than 50% chance Bd will squeeze HD DVD out at some point, not that I'm happy about it.
As long as the prevailing format is indeed superior when it happens.

as far as answering your specific question...probably no. I don't think I would be interested- for the simple reason I just want to watch movies. I don't want to see them turn into games. I kind of think its insulting to the art form (yes even the 'cool' iME) I personally don't need the distractions to enjoy a 'good' movie. For long movies, I have no problem switching a disc after 2 hours.

Further I would be happy if HD DVD positioned itself as the niche source for movie presentations without all the flash and gimmicks and left most of that to Bd -who could also compromise quality at the same since I doubt 90% of the same demographic that NEEDS the interactivity at the same time needs or values a prisitine picture or audio experience- seems to me the two are antiethical in a way...if you are going to be deviating regularly from the experience the filmmaker intended you to have, do you really care if there are a few artifacts in the picture you probably won't be paying attention to very often anyway?

But as it is now, going by things like Constantine, HD DVD apears to still be able to offer up all that gimmicky crap and STILL provide the goods for those looking for a pure performance a/v experience. When you talk about headroom and HD DVD hitting the wall as to what it'll be capable of...well, all I can say is most of the first HD DVD release I will never feel a need to double dip on in matters of a/v. Don't think the same thing can be said for Bd.
If another cut of the film comes to video at some point thats a different story, or if a certain extra gets bundled with a film at some point down the line (think a bonus on Apocolyspe Now that included Hearts Of Darkness at some point). Its not a matter of "See! HD DVD never had the space to put these on before thats why it sucks" it's more a case the studio didn't WANT to put that PARTICULAR extra material on before.

David, Warner is not a studio known for purposefully downgrading a release with the intention of putting out another one with some modification 12-18 months later. They very rarely do that. So that if and when they do it, I will trust that its a special case scenario, unless they are already upfront about it (ala the upcoming Blade Runner)
Yet even with BD50s at their disposal, do you honestly expect Sony to suddenly stop the practice of double dipping? (yes, we all know Bd is more than just Sony...I'm talking format figureheads here)

And of course another problem with the future is that it may take longer to get here than you think.
 

DaViD Boulet

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Sony can mess up their own titles as they've always done. Warner will also be supporting BD "equally" along side HD DVD and producing the same high-quality picture and sound on BD they do on HD DVD as well. Warner has some OUTSTANDING special-edition DVDs (Ben-Hur, Oz) and I'm sure that they could use 45/50 gigs of space in ways that compliment the integrity of the film and are of benefit to the film collector.
 

Robert Crawford

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I change players like some do their underwear so the answer is no.:) I already replaced the RCA-5000 with the Toshiba HD-XA1. I'll probably replace the latter within the next calendar year just like I did during the first two years of the dvd format, when I owned four different dvd players.
 

Walter Kittel

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In response to your query regarding 45 GB HD DVD, David -

Pretty much what Paul said. $500.00 was a moderately easy price point to absorb regardless of the long term fate of HD DVD. I seriously doubt that 45 GB HD DVD will happen, but I would have no qualms about upgrading or replacing the HD-A1 to handle revised content from the studios ( at least at this pricepoint. $1300 for a Panasonic or $1500 for a Pioneer Bd player would cross my personal comfort threshold with regards to changing out players. Not the topic I understand, but a comment on how pricing, for me, affects my approach to the formats. )

BTW, I suspect that a drive and firmware upgrade would handle this without a complete player replacement.

- Walter.
 

DaViD Boulet

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$1300 for a Panasonic or $1500
for a Pioneer Bd drive would cross my personal comfort threshold with
regards to changing out players.[/quote]

Agreed!

That's why I'm holding out and not buying any first-gen Blu-ray player (maybe the PS3 if I can get it cheap).

I want Advanced audio decoding, HDMI 1.3 (if possible, especially if no advanced audio decoding) and a price well under $1K!
 

Sean Bryan

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I'd be OK with upgrading because I'd most likely be interested in upgrading the player anyway in a couple of years.

I think this is most likely the attitude of many early adopters. However, once the installed base of players grows the percentage of people who would have a big problem with this is likely to grow as well.
 

RobertR

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I fear for the future of catalogue titles under Sony's control. With picture quality taking a back seat to other considerations, and their pigheaded insistence on using MPEG2, it doesn't look good. There's no indication they think there's a problem with current releases. Lawrence of Arabia...wish Warner owned it....sigh....
 

Mark Zimmer

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One of the beauties of the HD-A1 being a PC in disguise is that replacing drives with new ones that handle 3-layer (if that's necessary and it can't be done by a firmware update) should be a snap.
 

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