420, 780, 1080

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by Jame pc, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. Jame pc

    Jame pc Agent

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    I'm looking for a basic understanding of the resolution numbers. What do I need to know regarding these settings? What resolution is used where?
    I have a Sony KV-32HS420 specs: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...=feature&var2=
    I have my Pace DC550P STB set to PASS (not 420, 780 or 1080) for the resolution (it passes the native resolution of the broadcast. When watching HD channels and I toggle with the pound button it switches from 1080 (small boxed picture in the middle of the screen) to 480 (fills entire screen). I'm not using only 480 lines to view my HD in full screen am I? It defiantly does not look like it, the picture is 100 times better then an analog channel.
    Thanks,
    James
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    There are some oddities that occur when you use a 4:3 display with native 16:9 mode.....

    Often time 480p will just sort of lock full. The small boxed picture in the middle of your screen means the source whil it is on an HD feed, is not HD. HD will fill from left to right, with top and bottom black bars so to speak.


    If your using the native 16:9 mode, you not wasting resolution at all in say 1080i mode. The CRT guns are squished so you still get the full resolution.

    CRT displays are very sketchy on how much resolution you actually are getting at the display CRT itself.

    Your statement of 420, 780, 1080 is confusing...

    480p is considered ED
    720p and 1080i are considered HD
    Just beware, most content on most HD feeds is upconverted 4:3 stuff and will display a 4:3 window in the middle of a 16:9 display or a 4:3 display that offers a 16:9 native mode.


    Not sure if I helped or not here.
     
  3. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Is this "pound button" toggle something that is a function of the TV or the Cablebox?
     
  4. Jame pc

    Jame pc Agent

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    This is a function of the Pace DC550P STB. Before a service tech came out, it use to say "normal" or "stretch" when I toggled, now it says 480 or 1080. For analog channels it says "normal" or "zoom"

    Thanks again,
    James
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    James PC,, You 4:3 does offer a native 16:9 mode.

    Sounds like he screw'd up and set your STB up for a 4:3 display which is NOT correct if you have a true native widescreen / 16:9 mode on your display.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If the material is not widescreen (anamorphic or letterbox), it will not display in 16:9 mode. The TV detects the presence of these formats and displays them accordingly; if neither is detected, you get full screen. My former and current Sony TVs, a KV-32FV26 and current KV-34HS510(16:9) both work this way. John is correct, your settings may now be incorrect on the STB.
     
  7. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    The source material may be any one of 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i (U.S.A). When you select one of those formats at your cable box, all source programs are converted to the selected format and then output to the TV.

    The TV may accept video input in any or all of the formats. Most CRT direct view TV's accept 480i, 480p, and 1080i but not 720p. So for a 720p broadcast you probably have to set the cable box to 1080i or 480p instead of "pass".

    Most TV's display just one of the formats, converting any incoming material as needed. A few CRT direct view TV's that display 1080i have yet another choice, 540p, for display of all input sources. (540p if input behaves the same as 1080i input. 540p as displayed is the same as 1080i except that the even and odd fields are juxtaposed rather than staggered.) You may find less flicker and slightly more graininess with 540p compared with 1080i.

    I am guessing that your TV is displaying 1080i all of the time. Although any lesser resolution can be converted to 1080i, the picture detail of the subject matter is no greater than before, for DVD the resolution of picture detail remains 480 lines vertically.

    1080i and 720p programs are supposed to be 16:9, which may consist of a 4:3 picture with usused side bars. 480i and 480p programs can be either 16:9 or 4:3. Video can be stretched into any shape desired subject to the capabilitis of the TV. For its 16:9 display mode your TV spreads out all of the picture containing scan lines, whether 480 or 720 or 1080, over a lesser height within the 4:3 screen. A 16:9 video frame with a 4:3 picture within now appears to have unused bars on all four sides. Your TV may have a zoom selection to expand this picture to fill the screen.
     
  8. Jame pc

    Jame pc Agent

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    Sony calls it "16:9 Enhanced Mode" Is this the same thing? It's set to auto right now. If I set it to "ON" every channel is shown in 16:9 and squished, HD and analog. Happens with the STB set to 4:3 and 16:9. I set it back to Auto.

    I now set the STB to 4:3 and PASS (not 480, 720 or 1080).
     
  9. Jame pc

    Jame pc Agent

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    Tonight NBC's Law and Order was on. On the analog channel it was full screen, on the HD channel it was 16:9 (black bars on top and bottom) in 1080 mode.
    CBS's 48 hours was full screen in analog but in HD 1080 it was a small window (black bars on top, gray bars on sides).
    I could enlarge NBC and CBS to fill the entire screen on the HD channels but 480 would pop up. Does this sound right?
    Thanks again,
    James
     
  10. John S

    John S Producer

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    Sounds sort of right... Sounds like your native 16:9 mode is working as it did with the real HD presentation. The 48 hours is upconverted regular old 4:3 NTSC being fed over the HD feed.

    It is real common on a cable or sat bax to send HD at 1080i, and then SD at 480p, that is how I had my cable HD box setup when I had comcast.


    I hope this all has helped some....
     
  11. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    With this set, it displays only the scan lines present, discarding the unused ones, and displays it in and "letterboxed" 16:9 window on the screen with black bars above and below. It does not try to fit the screen, though depending on the aspect ratio, different amounts of either side may be cropped slightly. The result is a picture that is much more clear, but it is also smaller - that's the reason I upgraded to a 16:9 set, when in 16:9 mode on my 4:3 set, the image was too small. I always left mine on Auto.
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

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    Just another FYI, if you settings for how to output you HD sources, you gain back just a ton of aspect ratio control from the source device.


    Any more when they are sending upconverted 4:3 on an HD feed, I set my output back to 480p and it gives a ton more aspect ratio control options.

    But when HD is running a real HD presentation, 1080i it is....
     
  13. Jame pc

    Jame pc Agent

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    Yes John Garcia, everybodies replies has help me grasp a better understanding to HD viewing!
     
  14. John S

    John S Producer

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    I have found that if you can set any given box to output 480p on HD feeds. You will gain aspect ratio setting that were generally not available when having it output 1080i and/or 720p.....


    I have found these new found ratio controls to be extremely beneficial when they are sending upconverted 4:3 over their HD feed.

    A little bit of a PITA though, as you have to reset it to output 1080i and/or 720p when there is real HD content being sent over the HD feed.

    Maybe cable box and my current OTA STB have a ratio button that effectively becomes inactive when outputting HD resolutions on HD feeds. You set that output for 480p and viola the ratio button will page through several different ratio control schemes. As said the PITA is having to set the output back for real HD on the HD feeds, not that you have to, 480p still looks darn great and one of the aspect setting is for standard letterbox, but addmittedly not as good as HD.
     
  15. Brendan D

    Brendan D Auditioning

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    ---A little bit of a PITA though, as you have to reset it to output 1080i and/or 720p when there is real HD content being sent over the HD feed.---

    If the box was set to PASS, would you still need to adjust when an HD signal came through?
     
  16. John S

    John S Producer

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    Well yes, because if you set to output 480p on your HD, you have set it not to pass.....

    I don't really suggest passing whatever is being sent. I try to figure out which HD res is truly best and have it output that all the time.

    Otherwise you generally get all sorts of weirdness on your screen as you hit different resolution HD feeds. All output at the same res going from one channel to another is very seemless.
     
  17. Jame pc

    Jame pc Agent

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    All these posts stir up more questions...

    1. If my STB is set to 480 when viewing an HD channel, how does that affect the picture?

    2. Does it depend on the actual upfeed?

    3. Is upconverted 4:3 a type of upfeed that is not true HD?

    When I use TV to resize an HD feed it toggles from Normal to Zoom. When I use the STB to resize it toggles from 1080 (normal) to 480 (zoom).

    4. By changing the resolution to 480, is that how it resizes to fill a 4:3 screen?

    5. Does the picture quality diminish some when zoomed?

    6. Thanks for the help again,

    7. James

    8. [​IMG]
     
  18. John S

    John S Producer

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    1. It effects the picture as to send the image in ED resoultion as opposed to HD resolution.

    2. If by upfeed, you are referring to 4:3 NTSC being upconverted and being sent on the HD feed. Generally it doesn't matter all to much even on FOX where they give some crop zoom for you, they can all be delt with in the same manner. Somewhat depends also on if you have a native widescreen display or a 4:3 with a native 16:9 widescreen mode as to which is the best way to handle it.

    3. yes, upconverted is just that, true HD is not upconverted.

    4. Yes, by going to 480p it allows the STB to have some control over the ratio. On a 4:3 set this means that the upconverted material fills the screen and circles still appear as circles.

    5. Yes, the PQ dimminishes a little because you are viewing material that once was available at HD resolutions at ED resolution. But keep in mind, this stuff was upconverted, it was not HD in the first place so the answer is not really.

    6. Your welcome.... [​IMG]
     

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