4:3 format on 16:9 issues?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Robert K, Dec 12, 2003.

  1. Robert K

    Robert K Agent

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    Im excited about a new 65" RPT. In my research I have not read anyting that talks to performance with standard 4:3 programming....which is most of what I watch.

    Often when I see TVs on display with normal 4:3 programming that is expanded horizontally to fit the full screen. This makes things look fat, squatty and is disturbing to me.

    What can I expect from a new HDTV Ready RPT (lets use 65" Sony) as far as displaying 4:3 programming?

    Do you lose the benefits of the high res and larger screen if you only view the 4;3 is true prespective?

    Do some TV offers multiple viewmodes for 4:3?

    Do some maybe have a non-linear approach to horiz fill that makes the distortion less obvious?

    Any way, all the literature seems to focus on taking full advantage of high res source data, but in reality I mostly watch low res standard TV programming.

    Thank you for any thoughts on this subject.
    Robert
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    Well generally 4:3 material sure seems small.

    What model Sony? Then at least I could look up, some of the 4:3 mode stuff on it.

    I can say, that any new set, will have to be used and judged by yourself on that sort of thing.


    I was comming from a 48" 4:3 set, I could not afford a 73" widescreen RPT, so I went ahead and got a 60" 4:3 set, that is supposed to offer a full res sort of native 16:9 mode. I was not willing to downsize are even barely upsize my 4:3 content, and as with you, that 4:3 stuff is extremely important to me.
     
  3. Gilbert_P

    Gilbert_P Stunt Coordinator

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    the sony has a good wide zoom mode that you will easily adjust to with 4*3 content.
     
  4. Robert K

    Robert K Agent

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    We get lost in the hype I think.....yea its great for DVDs, but when 95% of what I watch is 4:3, is it really a downgrade when moving...up..57" 3:4 to 65" 16:9 HDTV?

    My plan was to get the largest RPT I can afford.
    10 years ago I bought a 57" Sony RPT and my only mistake was I didnt get the larger one! To this day that TV has an excellent picture so my line in the sand is SONY. Ill be comparing everything to Sony.

    The two models that would work for me are:
    a) KP-65WV700
    b) KDF-70XBR950

    The XBR being almost 2x the cost of course.

    It seems not to be mentioned, as you note, but since most of programming 4:3 will I actually have a smaller picture on a 65" then on my 57" Sony RPTV!

    In may case, it may be a decision to wait to buy until programming is more prevalent. If there was a HDTV DVD native format available at Hollywood Video, I be hauling a new SONY home tonight!

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    You will have not only a smaller picture on 4:3 stuff, but a much much smaller picture on your 4:3 stuff.....
     
  6. Gilbert_P

    Gilbert_P Stunt Coordinator

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    It's ultimately up to you but i would go widescreen no dougt as 2006 is nearing when HD becomes the standard. And even if it doesn't by 2006, every year it grows tremendously. Depending on where you live, you should be able to get HD content. You have had that set for 10 years so, going by your track record i would say if you are replacing that set go widescreen. And 4*3 matierial is not going to look that small on a set that big.
     
  7. John S

    John S Producer

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    Not that it would look small, but it will look small comming from a 57" 4:3....

    It is a hard call... I chose the 60" 4:3, that should still give me a 53" or so HDTV Widescreen....


    It is a choice all of us big screen 4:3 owners have to face.
    There is no real wrong answer, it is in the end, each of ours choice.

    The HDTV content being the wave of the future is very valid for the side of widescreen, as is the 1000's of movies made before like 1950 is for large 4:3 format.

    Like I said for me it was a hard call, I made the unpopular choice for sure, but one I still feel most comfortable with.
     
  8. Gilbert_P

    Gilbert_P Stunt Coordinator

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    that i can respect. [​IMG]
     
  9. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Robert,

    You'll have several choices on how to display 4/3 stuff on your widescreen Sony set:

    Normal: Displays a 4/3 picture in the center of the screen with gray bars on the sides, no cropping or stretching occurs so no picture content is lost and no geometric distortion occurs.

    Full: This is the standard mode for watching 16/9 content like HD and anamorphic dvd. regular 4/3 stuff will be uniformly stretched horizontally so everything will look short and fat.

    Zoom: This does a uniform vertical stretch as well as a uniform horizontal stretch of the 4/3 image. No geometric distortion but content will be lost at top and bottom. The picture can be scrolled up or down in this mode to make crawls at the bottom of the screen visible. This is also the mode used for non-anamorphic letterbox dvds if you don't have a dvd player capable of scaling them.

    WideZoom: This is a variable stretch of 4/3 material. On Sonys, the center of the picture is still a bit wider than normal but not much. The stretch is increased at the sides. A bit of squeeze also occurs at top and bottom. The scroll feature available in zoom also works in this mode.

    Your old set presents a 57" 4/3 image with nice big nasty looking scanlines. Your new 65" widescreen set will have a bit smaller 4/3 image if you use "normal", but because it has DRC (Sony's name for line doubling) the scanlines should be virtually invisible. The loss in size is more than made up for by the lack of scanlines.

    I went from an excellent 53" analog rptv to a 57" Sony Widescreen, and lost about the same percentage of 4/3 picture size as you'll be losing. That somewhat smaller image is so much better looking because of the line doubling however that I would never go back.
     
  10. Robert K

    Robert K Agent

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    Thank you Steve:

    That was a very clear and well written response and I understand completely.

    Are there issues of screen burn or other problems caused when you have the gray bars on either side for such long periods of time?

    Do you watch in the 4/3 mode then most of the time?

    thanks again,
    Robert
     
  11. Gilbert_P

    Gilbert_P Stunt Coordinator

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    with lots of 4/3 viewing, a ws rptv set can still get burn in over time. the sony's do have gray bars which will prolong that from happening. If you are very anal (NO DISRESPECT, just couldn't think of a better word) with your 4/3 viewing, i suggest you look into LCD technology, as there is no burn in with those sets. also with DLP. they are roughly the same price range. I myself have the Sony KP46WT500 rptv and i am very happy with it. i watch it with the widezoom mode. The picture is excellent on this set, so i would imagine the wv700 is even better.
     
  12. Robert K

    Robert K Agent

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    good point. Maybe another subject. Buts whats the LCD you mention? So the Sonys use two different technologies in their sets? They are considered equivalent? is so probably makes sense to go with the LCD version?

    any thoughts?

    thank you
     
  13. Gilbert_P

    Gilbert_P Stunt Coordinator

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    Lcd and DLP are the newest technologies among tv along with LCOS and Plazma.

    here is a decription of what i know:

    LCD- no burn in great picture, blacks are not up to par yet but are improving very much.


    DLP-no burn in. VERY expensive at this point. Excellent picture imo. Good blacks. like it much more than LCD(IMO) i think it has better color saturation out of the box than LCD also, but than again that is subjective to ones's preference.


    RPTV- burn in is possible but unlikely if your viewing is varied and contrast and brightness are properly adjusted. Excellent blacks and an excellent picture when calibrated.


    PLAZMA- excellent picture great blacks especpecially the panasonic models, excellent imo. Burn in is an issue with these sets though but no more than a rptv.

    hopefully others can add to these post to help you withyour decision.
     
  14. Humphrey

    Humphrey Stunt Coordinator

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    [​IMG] I posted my comments on the Sony 70" in another thread tonight.

    As fas as 4:3 content on it I refuse to stretch it and distort the picture, I also refuse to stretch other non-16:9 formats to fill the height on the 70" set. I beleive in watching shows in only the Orignal format all the time. With this set screen burn in is a non-issue as LCD's don't suffer with that problem. I also am a long time Sony convert, every CRT I've owned since 1986 has been a Sony XBR, even my computer monitors are Sony tubes. When something works don't go messing with it. I recently gave my neice my old 27" XBR and it has good a picture today as it did in the late 80's when I bought it.
     
  15. Robert K

    Robert K Agent

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    im a believer too in XBR. However, I dont believe enough to fork out the 7000 for the 70" project using LCD. I think Ill wait a year or 2 before investing until the LCD technology improves a bit (black levels). I cleaned the glass on my xbr 53" and tweeked the alignment a bit and what an excellent and bright picture still after 10 years. Now that I have this brighter picture (10 years of dust is a major problem) I can see more clearly burns around the PIP and where the time and channel numbers are. I normally only notice them during hocky games with I watch a lot off and the large white background.
     
  16. Heath_E

    Heath_E Stunt Coordinator

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  17. Humphrey

    Humphrey Stunt Coordinator

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  18. jimmy~e

    jimmy~e Agent

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    I have to put in a vote for my set up. I went with a DLP front projector. I bought the NEC HT1000 for about four grand.
    I use it in an 80 inch diagonal set up in my living room without a screen--just using the off white wall over my fireplace. I can use the projector in 4:3 or 16:9. I can zoom the picture virtically or horizontally, stretch the picture. I can get up to a 200 inch or down to a 40 inch size depending on my mood! ;-)
    Time-Warner Cable just provided me with a Pioneer Voyager high definition cable box which has a DVI-D out to my projector and options for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i video format output.
    I can't imagine a more striking picture for less than 4 grand in a big screen display,
     

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