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3db's Great Room (mainfloor townhouse open concept) setup (1 Viewer)

3dbinCanada

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The fun started today. I've purchased a second identical PSB Subsonic6 used and cheap, have a miniDSP. This room is so irregular shaped with a gaping that I could not find a sweet spot for a single sub like I did for the basement.

No matter where I placed a single sub, I never got a smooth response like I was able to in the basement.
Bass@behindcouch.jpg Location Under Painting.jpg New-Facing-Couch.jpg New-Facing-Out.jpg

What a day. I'm exhausted moving sh?t around. I started today by placing the subs in the 1/4 and 3/4 position on the long wall and after calibrating the sub gains, I proceeded with the measurements. It turns out that the left LP response was horrendous. I pushed the sub to the corners of the long wall and took measurements, I had a dip in the center or main LP but it was better than the alternative. I went further with the subs in the corners r as I'm waiting for longer sub cables from Amazon to arrive and I still had to try and figure out the rest of the miniDSP REW process.

The first graph is what the individual sub responses looked like along with the combined L+R sub response;
Sub@Corners Combined and Individual Sub  Measurements @ Main LP.jpg

The second graph is the combined sub responses across 3 listener positions.
Subs Combined@Corners 3 LP.jpg

The third graph shows both the raw and REW eq'd response at the main LP
REW EQd  Corners L+R+1.jpg

The last graph is me playing with MiniDSP using input EQ to lessen that notch.
Sub Corners REW EQed + Manual DSP Eqed L+R+1.jpg


Did another sub placement exercise today. The right corner sub in yesterdays placement was moved to the other end of the couch, still behind it and firing back into the corner of its previous placement. The Left corner sub was moved to the right of the right speaker centered under the window. I will post measurements tomorrow.

This is where I ended up placing the two subs. Its even a smoother response than the one subs in the room corners.. There at opposite ends of the couch but give the best bass response where the white recliners are, I dont quite get it.
Great44.jpg

If you notice the media stand is under the TV. I used those 3M velcro strips and velcroed the miniDSP to the back of the stand.
Great42.jpg
Great43.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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Here are the plots. The first plot is of each sub by itself taken from the center LP and R+L subs from center listening position.
L_Only_R_Only_R+L@C-LP.jpg

After the EQ. I chose the slope of the bass to be +10db higher between 20 and 30 Hz and be down at 10 db at a 100 Hz based on the Youtube video stating that the lower frequencies (20-30) need to be 10 db louder than at 80 Hz, aka house curve.
R+L Post EQ Across 3 LPs.jpg

I've listened to music and some BluRays and I must say that I agree with the slope philosophy, The bass is no longer boomy but the floors are rattling because of the lower bass. I'm actually quite pleased with the results.

Now integrating this with YPAO was a process I had to think about and run a few measurements. What I ended up doing was disabling the two sub outs on the miniDSP and running YPAO. I also ran YPAO for the main or center LP as I did NOT like what its was doing when I ran it across the 3 LPs. I realise that this would set the mains to large so just for shits & giggles (my favourite English expression) I ran a measurement as shown below.
FF-Mains Set To Large No Sub.jpg

I enabled the sub outputs on the MiniDSP, went into the AVR config menu, set the bass to sub only, set mains to small, and set the cross over to 90 Hz..(I experimented with that and 90 gave me the best result) . I also played with the sub distance and found that 10.5' gave me the best response. I also took a measurement of YPAO set to through which means no YPAO EQ but bass management is still employed.
YPAO Flat Verses Through.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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Here are some pics of my second system using the PSB 600 as mains.

Great39.JPG
Great42.jpg
Great41.jpg
Great44.jpg
These last two pics were taken sitting at the main LP.

Great47.jpg
Great48.jpg
 

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3dbinCanada

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I decided to swap in the PSB500 and swap out the PSB600. I found some stands for the 500s and the tweeters are now at ear level.
Great49.jpg Great50.jpg Great51.jpg

Here are the measured responses;

Subs Only measured across all 3 LP
Bass Brown=LLP Blue=CLP Purple=RLP.jpg

Mains set to large subs turned off at CLP
Mains Set To Large No Sub @ CLP.jpg

YPAO set to flat across all 3 LP
YPAO FLAT Across 3 LP.jpg
YPAO Off, Mains Set to small across all 3 LP
YPAO OFF Mains Set To Small Across 3 LP.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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I finally dialed in the 3rd sub into the Greatroom. The bass is much more even now when walking around. Still not perfect but I'm not going to invest into another sub. Here are the pics.. The last sub added is the sub on the left. The other two subs I had in their present location since March of this year. The 3rd sub is holding up the lamp Great52.jpg Great53.jpg

Here is the bass response.. each response at a different listening position, NON EQ verses EQ (miniDSP). The LLP is closet to the hallway and the RLP is closted to the backwall. The couch is not considered a listening position.
NonEQ-EQ-LLP.jpg NonEQ-EQ-CLP.jpg
NonEQ-EQ-RLP.jpg
Here are the full frequency sweeps across the listener positions (LP). First graph is with YPAO set to flat, second graph is YPAO turned off but using bass management, and the third graph is Pure Direct

YPAO-FLAT-3LP.jpg
NoEQ-BassOn-3LP.jpg

Pure Direct-3LP.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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I have rearranged the great room. Im getting a new smaller sofa and chair for the great room and selling off the old set. I moved an Ikea book case into the basement which freed up more space for the 3rd subwoofer. I swapped out the PSB 600s for the PSB 400s onto new to me but used stands. Here are the pics..

IMG_6169.jpg IMG_6170.jpg IMG_6171.jpg IMG_6172.jpg

I have a question about the measurements and generated house curve wondering if I have to redo the measurements again. I turned the crossover on the AVR to its highest value of 200 Hz and set the fronts to small. I went into the AVR sound menu and turned off all EQ. The sub distance was still at its old value of 14 feet. I took the REW measurements and generated a house curve based on the old 14' .

This curve is the house curve measured across the 3 LP.
Post Sub 3-LP House Curve.jpg

The next curve is full frequency sweeps without any YPAO influence and with the AVR crossover set to 80 Hz.
Post Sub 3-LP Full Frequency.jpg

These measurements were taken after playing with the sub distance to reduce the notch that was happening between 90 and a 150Hz. The new sub distance that yielded the best results pictured by these traces was at 25' but the house curve generation was based on 14' . I do not like the hump found in the CLP (green curve) between 67.5 and 90ish Hz . Do I need to remeasure the CLP based on the new sub distance and generate a new house curve in REW to improve upon the in room bass response?
 
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3dbinCanada

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I didnt like the measurements I was seeing and I thought I could tighten things up so I tried next day again playing with new sub positioning. Everyhing else stayed status quo.
IMG_6185.jpg


Here are the measured results.
Subs 1-3 Raw response across all 3 LP
3LP-Sub1-3_Raw.jpg

Post EQ response of Subs1-3 across only 2LP. Missing the Left LP
2-LP-Sub1-3_PostEQ.jpg

Full frequency with speaker set to small and YPAO PEQ results turned off
3-LP-Through.jpg

Full frequency with YPAO PEQ filters set to flat
3-LP-Flat-EQ.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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I swapped out the KX-800 deck for a K720 auto reversing deck that I've had in storage. Plays really nice.

IMG_6319.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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The new sofa and chair are in, waiting on a couple of ottomans to come in to complete the room. Did another sub placement/REW EQ exercise. Measurements to follow later but this what the room looks like now;

Great60.jpg
Great61.jpg
 

3dbinCanada

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I redid the sub locations and will upload the pic. Basically the orientation of the left and middle sub has changed with the driver facing the closet corner or back to back. I took three full frequency sweeps with the sub distance of the AVR set to 16.5', 25', and 27' . Although none are ideal, which would be the best setting?

Sub Distance Setting.jpg
 

JohnRice

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You have a massive problem in the crossover area. Probably some phase adjustment on the individual subs is in order.
 

3dbinCanada

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You have a massive problem in the crossover area. Probably some phase adjustment on the individual subs is in order.

The 3 subs are all glued together by a MiniDSP which makes it act as a virtual sub. I have accounted for phase at the CLP as shown below. This is before I EQ'd through REW+MiniDSP and is all three subs on.

Sub Phase.jpg


Here is the 3 subs response after the EQ curves were applied.

Post Mini EQ.jpg

This room is a bitch to dial-in as its an open concept room in a town house. The left LP is open to the hall and stairwell.
 

JohnRice

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The response of the subs alone is great, but if once you add in the speakers you get the massive drop in the crossover area I see, then you still have a serious problem. If all three subs are originating from a single output (before the MiniDSP) on the receiver, then adjusting the distance for the sub output should be able to fix the problem. Basically, you keep doing sweeps of the transition area (50-200Hz should do it), adjusting the distance setting for the sub output (in the receiver) 1ft. at a time until you get a much smoother transition area.
 

3dbinCanada

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The response of the subs alone is great, but if once you add in the speakers you get the massive drop in the crossover area I see, then you still have a serious problem. If all three subs are originating from a single output (before the MiniDSP) on the receiver, then adjusting the distance for the sub output should be able to fix the problem. Basically, you keep doing sweeps of the transition area (50-200Hz should do it), adjusting the distance setting for the sub output (in the receiver) 1ft. at a time until you get a much smoother transition area.
Thats what I have been doing. There are distances where that the transistion disappears but Im left with two bass humps. If time permits, I will post them.
 

3dbinCanada

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Well I gave it another go yesterday running sweep after sweep in 1ft increments from 1' to 16' . Not seeing anything outstanding happening, I jumped to 44' The RX-V1900 has setting all the way out to 80' . Anyway I started running sweeps above that and it got worse looking. I finally settled on something that was a little better than last time.

Full Frequency Sweeps set to Through.jpg
 

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