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3805 and DVD Audio?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Travis, May 17, 2004.

  1. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

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    OK this is driving me nuts. I am trying to figure out how to get the DVD audio to work right. I have the 6 channel outputs (LF,RF,C,LS,RS,SUB) going from the DVD 1600 to the multi inputs on the 3805 as it shows in the manual. My question is which mode do you run it in to get it to play right? Reading through the manual it sounds like I am supposed to use external in. I flipped it to that and listened for a while and something just didn't sound right. So I go walking over to the sub and it is playing full range like there is no crossover setup for external in. It is also playing pretty loud and I find out that external in bumps the sub by +15 db by default mode. Why is that? If I switch it to 5.1/7.1 stereo the same thing plays through all of the speakers which is defeating the purpose of DVDA. If I put it on auto, sound only comes from the front. I am confused as hell. Would someone who knows about this bail me out. Thanks.
     
  2. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    You have to set your player's speaker settings to SMALL in order to get proper bass management in your case. Many hi-res players, particularly older models, have an issue with the bass output level. Some, Denon 2200 and 2900 among them, have a bass boost inside the player. I don't know about the 1600, but I think it does not have this feature. In any case, your receiver has this as a default position to compensate for a wide variety of players with this bass problem. (Comes from a lack of standards in hi-res mixing and mastering--unlike Dolby Digital, for example, which has some sort of standards, I think, though I could be wrong here). As for the crossover setting, you are correct, they do not apply to the ext. input selection. You have to do that inside the player by selecting speaker sizes. Your player also, most likely, allows you to set some sort of time alignment and you'll have to do that as the settings in your receiver for distance compensation will also not apply to the ext. input.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

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    Thanks for the reply,

    The DVD-1600 has a setup menu that allows me to change all speakers to small in the menu and to change time delays. So what you're saying is that I should be using the external out button on the 3805 for DVDA? Why would the Denon default to +15 db ( I can change it to +5 or 0 as well, should I use the 0 setting?) for the sub when using external in sources? Also why is the sub being sent a full range signal? I have all speakers set to small in the receiver setup, and the crossover at 80 hz.
     
  4. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    except for the ext. in levels, the receiver's settings are not applied to the ext. inputs. as paul said, you must bass manage and time manage the signal with the player.

    but you can calibrate the ext. inputs' levels with the receiver, just as you do the digi input.

    the sub setting allows you to tweak the sub input level specifically for your particular player, as, has also been alluded to, different manufacturers do the sub channel differently. why the denon defaults it to +15dB is not really important; it's there to be adjusted to what is most appropriate for your application. set it where you need to set it in order to get the receiver's ext. in sub level to be at or below "0".
     
  5. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

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    That is why I love these forums, I would be lost without your guys expertise. [​IMG] The only thing that remains unanswered is why the sub is being sent a full signal. Maybe you answered it and I just don't understand. I have all of the speakers set to small as mentioned on the Denon 1600. Is there a way to set to x over for the sub or when playing dvda am I just going to have to use the x over on the sub? Thanks for the input.
     
  6. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    it shouldn't be. are you certain?

    i'm not familiar with that player's specific setup menus, but on my 2200 there is a setting called "filter" that should be set to "on", otherwise all the channels WILL receive a "full" signal. perhaps that's the problem.

    also, check your connections. make certain you haven't accidentally crossed up your sub connection with one of your other speakers.
     
  7. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

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    I am definitely sure that the sub is being sent a full range. You can put your ear down to it and hear voices and everything else. I will check to see if I crossed something up.

    Lastly, on a different note, I have a question pertaining to speaker level. I popped in DVE and calibrated all speakers to 75 db. I did this by pushing the button on the front under the front panel and cycling through each speaker. I noticed that in the receiver setup menu when you go into speaker level that there is a level for the speakers as well. Are these for 2 different purposes? When I change the ones by just pushing the input button on the front is doesn't change the one in the setup menu.
    I wish the manual was a little better layed out. It is kind of vague.
     
  8. Mike SJ

    Mike SJ Supporting Actor

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    ...
     
  9. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    again, i'm not absolutely certain about that receiver, but on my 3803, provided you're in a 5.1 (or greater) mode, the "on-the-fly" settings should be applied, universally. perhaps you were adjusting the settings "on-the-fly" for a different mode, like stereo, for instance.
     
  10. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    Mike SJ is correct about DVD-A not having any rules. Some use a 6.0 configuration, some use a 4.0, some 5.0. There are no established rules or standards in DVD-A as to what goes where, unlike DD and DTS which has rules re: LFE and such. What disc were you listening to that sent a full signal to your sub?
     
  11. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

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    I was listening to Lincoln Park Reanimation where I first noticed it. During that CD I didn't go over and listen I just noticed that something sounded different. I then popped in the DVD Video version of BMG. I can't remember the exact song I think it was Sing Along, but that is when I walked over to the sub and put my ear next to it and noticed that I could hear everything that was coming out of the mains, it was just a bit more muffled of course.
    Maybe I have never heard true DVDA before. I had a 2ES receiver before and had it set up the same way. I had the optical in going to the receiver from the player for movies and the 6 speakers going from the player to the receiver in. When I played DVD audios with the Sony I just pushed the auto button on the receiver which was supposed to automatically pick which decoder to use. Since I had both optical and analog going in would it just have picked the optical instead. It sounded good, all sounds were seperated as supposed to be, but now it sounds so much cleaner and louder. Of course this is with m60's, qs4/8's, where I was listening to polk rm6700's before so this could be the difference.
     
  12. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    If you were relying on the optical feed on your Sony, you weren't getting DVD-A, you were getting the DD or DTS portion of the disc. As such, it would be correctly bass/time managed by your receiver just like any movie. My understanding is the player will default to the highest res available (so long as you set it up to do that) but a receiver will not "default" to the external inputs, it needs to be selected by the remote or on the receiver. Otherwise, I'm out of ideas (but that's okay, I'm no expert).
     
  13. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

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    Well if nothing else I've learned a whole lot today. I think even though I was using the 6 speaker outs on the DVD into the Sony it wasn't playing Hi Res but as you said the dd/dts portion. I didn't even see a place to change to ext in on the sony and so therefore figured it would default to that when I put in a DVDA. Would you recommend using the sub x over when playing DVD audio or is it OK for the sub to play full range? Thanks for listening to all my questions.
     

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