What's new

Resolution drop on Desiree blu ray (1 Viewer)

skylark68

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 1, 2015
Messages
1,561
Location
Pearland, TX
Real Name
Timothy
I'm not really sure how to properly explain this phenomenon, but while watching Twilight Time's Desiree the past weekend, I noticed that when the film is about to transition from one scene to another for a brief moment the resolution drops off quite a bit, from what looks like 1080p to something closer to 480p (DVD resolution). It does this for a slight moment before the end of one scene and for a moment when the new scene starts. Has anyone else experienced this? Just for reference I have an old Oppo BDP-83 and a Sony Bravia KDL-46XBR9 (both roughly 2010-2011 vintage).

Any ideas?
 

Will Krupp

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
4,014
Location
PA
Real Name
Will
It sounds like what you're seeing is the quality drop associated with optical dissolves in early Eastmancolor films.

When you're dissolving from one scene to another, you reduce the exposure, frame by frame, on the scene you're fading OUT of until there's nothing there. You then have to manually rewind the film and the begin the reverse process of fading IN to the next scene frame by frame, double exposing it onto the fade out you just made. Since it's practically impossible (time-wise) to do that on each and every release print in a large run, they just do it once. They re-photograph the completed "dissolve" onto duplicate stock and cut it into the printing master, meaning that those dissolves are dupes and at least one generation removed from everything surrounding them. They are extremely noticeable in films made on early color negatives because the duping stock available at the time was not very good.

Before color negative, Technicolor would "hide" the quality drop associated with optical dissolves by duping the entire section of film leading into and leading out of a dissolve because the quality of dye-transfer Technicolor release prints was not as closely tied to grain structure as b&w contact prints were. There was no way to hide the quality drop and grain increase for films made with color negative; however, so they began to limit the duping to just around the dissolve itself. This is what causes a noticeable" "bump" like what you're describing.

Does that make sense?
 
Last edited:

Peter Apruzzese

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 20, 1999
Messages
4,888
Real Name
Peter Apruzzese
You're seeing the result of the optical film duplication that was done to create the transitions. It was always there and you can see it on many films of that era.
 

Lord Dalek

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Messages
7,090
Real Name
Joel Henderson
As everyone has said, its a side-effect of the ancient optical printers of the day. Nothing you can do about it.
 

skylark68

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 1, 2015
Messages
1,561
Location
Pearland, TX
Real Name
Timothy
Okay, I'm not complaining. I guess I just never noticed it before. The disc looked wonderful, I just wasn't sure if I was seeing something I shouldn't. Thanks for the answers, particularly to Mr. Krupp.
 

Mark-P

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
6,481
Location
Camas, WA
Real Name
Mark Probst
It seems that before high definition, nobody noticed them. One of the reasons they are more noticiable nowadays is due to the fact that original elements are being scanned whereas in the old days the telecine process used release prints.
 

OliverK

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2000
Messages
5,713
With some movies the opticals really stick out. The Tall Men (1955) is another title where they were really distracting. Back in the days their impact would have been lessened somewhat on a release print but now we have the camera negative next to the dupes for a growing number of titles and that is hard to miss.
 

John Hermes

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
1,832
Location
La Mesa (San Diego) CA
Real Name
John Hermes
Another nice thing about a lot of the VistaVision films is their fade and dissolve opticals are A/B rolled - seemless first generation transitions. Check out The Geisha Boy. Too bad all films did not do this.
 

Paul Penna

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
1,222
Real Name
Paul
Studio policies varied on the process as well. Most restricted the optical dupe to the start and end points if the dissolve, which of course could in an perceivable abrupt quality shift in mid-shot. Others duped the entire length of the shots before and after the dissolve, the trade-off being longer sections of lower-quality image. I think Warner did that in the 50s?
 

Alan Tully

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
4,615
Location
London
Real Name
Alan
I'm sure the desolves looked okay back then, but time hasn't been kind to the dupe stock, I've seen how badly these dupes have faded & the studios really do work wonders getting them to match the original negative so well.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,710
Messages
5,121,134
Members
144,146
Latest member
SaladinNagasawa
Recent bookmarks
0
Top