$314 for the Toshiba HD-DVD Player?! (1 Viewer)

[Nils Luehrmann]

Will, $260 was a great price for any DVD player in 1999. The price mentioned by Kelly, $320 CDN was very likely an unadvertised promotional price, and sold well below what that dealer paid for it. The MSRP was $799 for the A100 and $999 for the A300. The North American director of sales for Panasonic could not give an exact figure, but he assured me that no Canadian dealer, no matter how large the order, was able to get the A100 for under $500 when it was released in 1997. Even then, dealer pricing would have never dropped below $300 except when it was being closed out and replaced by the ever-popular A110 model.

The average STREET price of all the introductory DVD players between 1997-1999 was well above $1,000 (US). Even if you were to ignore "premium" brands, street prices for introductory basic models from the major electronic manufacturers were certainly in the $500 - $1,000 range (STREET not MSRP) back in 1997, and even into 1998. The introductory prices for progressive scan players back in 2000 was between $1,000-$3,000 – that was less than six years ago!

Compared to the prices of initial SD DVD players, Toshiba's basic trimmed down HD DVD player, the HD-A1, is a remarkable bargain at $500, but so far CE industry analysts appear to agree that it is a marketing mistake on the part of Toshiba because it isn't cheap enough to compete with the SD DVD player market, and is missing several key features which early adopters will most likely will demand.

Even Toshiba's "better" HD DVD player, HD-XA1, which has a MSRP of $800, is also lacking several previously expected features, which will also keep early adopters at bay. This leaves both of these players in a very precarious position stuck between bargain hunters who will be put off by any player over $250, and early adopters who will be put off by feature and spec light players.

I suspect the majority of sales for either of these Toshiba models will be coming from hardcore early adopters who simply can't wait and are more than happy to buy both HD DVD and Blu-ray players in order to get as much HD video as soon as possible.

Personally, even for the few HD DVD fans, if you can wait at least nine months you'll likely be rewarded by either a better performing player, lower costs, or possibly saving you money in the event HD DVD folds, which despite Microsoft's last minute support is an ever increasing possibility.

 

[PerryD]

I think your pricing is a bit off. When the first DVD players came out, I remember all of the players listed between $500 and $1000. I chose to go with the Sony S7000 ($1000 list, paid $850) since it allowed you to remove macrovision and regional coding using dipswitches. First generation Toshiba SD-2006 and Panasonic A100 players listed at $500.

I also bought the very first progressive scan DVD player, the Toshiba SD-5109 for $600 on the day it came out sometime in the fall of 1999.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Great price, but my recollection was that both Toshiba and Panasonic were forced to delay the release of the first-gen progressive scan players until after January 2000 due to some unresolved copyright issues, at least that was all the talk going around the 2000 CES, which was in January.

In 2000, the SD-5109 had a MSRP of $999 and was very hard to find for less than 25% off list so you got a fantastic deal. It was also the cheapest progressive scan player. Panasonic's DVD-H1000 progressive scan player, which came out the same time as the SD-5109, had a list price of $3,000. There were a few other progressive scan players in 2000 from other makers that listed for even more.

This is kind of fun strolling down memory lane. An interesting note from the history of DVD is that it wasn’t until 1999 that DVD players even began to come out with component outputs. That’s right, for the first two years all we had was S-video outputs even though displays with component inputs had been around for some time. $500-$3,000+ for interlaced S-video output players… my have things changed!

Time has away of making us forget just how expensive and under whelming older gear was when compared to current gear. I paid close to $1,000 for my fist CD player from Technics, which in today’s money would be about $2,200. This for a player that would pail in comparison to today’s $50 DVD players.

Home audio and video makes for a lousy financial investment, but a fantastic investment in entertainment.

Regardless, comparing MSRP’s and considering the 20% inflation increase since 1997, even Blu-ray players look like they will be priced below what the initial SD DVD players were priced at back in 1997. 2006 does look like it will be a very good year for audio and videophiles in regards to new equipment and content, and only stands to get better should more consumers embrace high definition in both hardware and software.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Do you guys remember that $4,000 "Faroudja" DVD player back when DVD was first released?

It was nothing more than a rebadged Toshiba 480I model...with the same'ole' "drop every fourth scanline" anamorphic downconversion and all...



The Faroudja tech (who I called to ask what made their player so special that it was worth $4k) told me "what they recommend is to use the composite output to feed their outboard comb-filter to get the best picture." When I asked "how could that make things better when DVD is already a component format to begin with...so S-video or component ought to be superior because they bypass a comb-filter all-together" the Faroudja tech told me "well, that's *your* opinion."

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

$4,000 player with 480i via composite, very little content highly compressed onto single layer discs and no anamorphic titles...(and at that time, copy protection which had not yet been broken) where do I sign up?

Yes, we have definitely come a long way in a very short time - can't wait to see what the next ten years will bring!

 

[Blaine Skerry]

Is it too soon to look forward to the DCI-DVD players(Direct Cerebral Implant)?

 

[Eric F]

My $50 Sharp DV-S2 DCDi player has as good output as I've seen on players that cost 10x as much.

So for those who expect the PS3's Blu-Ray output not to be as good as a full fledged player, that remains to be seen.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

It's amazing to think that my @ $200 Oppo produces a 720P/1080P image from DVD fed via an all-digital-pathway to my projector...producing an image more film-like and natural than any that the Faroudja designers could have even imagined back in the late 1990's given their history with laserdisc and fledgling familiarity with DVD.

When I told that Faroudja tech my "dream" of a scaling all-digital DVD player that could produce a 480P, 720P, or 1080I signal right-out-of-the-box, he said "keep dreaming...it will never happen!"

Bah!

 

[Larry Sutliff]

It's truly incredible that people with rear projection HDTV's and inexpensive front projectors have better picture quality today than the 20K line doubled/quadrupled rigs that were all the rage less than 10 years ago.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Or how about the early DLP projectors? I remember some of the “entry” models going for $10,000 with SVGA resolution (800x600), low RPM 3-seg color wheels (where the whole "rainbow effect" had its legitimate beginning), sub 100:1 ANSI contrast levels, 1000 hour lamp lives and $1,000 replacement lamps!

Some of the “professional” XGA (1024x768) DLP projectors back then sold for over $100,000, and frankly did not have much better specs as the SVGA models. In fact, you can buy an InFocus 4805 DLP projector for less than $700 now which would put those $100,000 commercial DLP projectors to shame… except for lumens of course.

I saved an old 1999 Proxima DS1, which was one of the early DLP projectors and would bring it along whenever I was involved in a projector shootout over the years. It was a great way to show how far digital projection and DLP has come in such a short period of time. It finally blew its power supply a couple years ago, and the cost of repairing it was going to be several hundred dollars. Although that represented only a small fraction of its original cost, it seemed silly to repair it. I still have it, but it now just sits in its case as a memorial to the past.

 

[BrettGallman]

All of these last few posts are reminding me of how great it is to not be an early adopter.

I was actually a semi-early adopter for DVD though, because we got a home computer equipped with a DVD drive in 1998. I remember convincing my parents that it was definately worth it because soon movies wouldn't be on tape any more. I didn't get a stand-alone player until a year later, if I recall correctly.

 

[Dave H]

I bought my first DVD player the day after Christmas in 1999. I paid $299.00 for a Sony (360 I think) from Montgomery Ward. I think that was a very decent price for such a player at that time.

 

[BrettGallman]

Our first standalone was near $300 too. It was a Toshiba two-disc changer. It didn't do progressive scan, but it did come with component outputs.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I bought a first-generation Sony 7000 and NEVER regreted it EVER (a player that still produces a reference 480I image via its component interface).

It was amazing after years of trying to "milk a good picture" out of laserdisc to finally have an image worthy of my 16x9 ProScan monitor. I never regreted being able to start collecting DVDs in 1997 and STOP collecting laserdiscs. Many of my "wait and see" friends kept on buying laserdisc...and when they finally switched to DVD a few years later...*they* were the ones who *regreted* that they hadn't adopted DVD sooner. Instead, they had continued to invest $$ in laserdisc movies that could never look as "film like" on the big-screen as their home-theater systems evolved (the occasional better-mastered LD title not withstanding). If that point wasn't immediately real to them, it became abundantly clear when they finally upgraded to 16x9 displays and discovered how dramatically better a good 16x9 DVD really looked in comparison to conventional 4x3 lblxed laserdisc. Every one of them admitted later "I should have gotten into DVD sooner. Instead, I spent more money on a format that now I want to replace to get a better picture." (The few "wait and see" friends who stopped buying laserdisc while they waited to get into DVD at least straddled-the-gap...they waited longer to save money on their first DVD player but didn't continue to invest in a format that they knew they were going to replace in the near future)

I didn't regret being first-in-line to buy DVD. I won't regret being first-in-line to buy Blu ray. The money I save in purchasing new titles for my library in 1080P that I don't have to "rebuy" because I kept on investing in DVD will pay for the player.

 

[PerryD]

Nils, sorry to keep arguing these points.

Not sure where this information came from, but component outputs were available on the very first DVD players. As David mentioned above, the Sony S7000 which was available launch had component outputs.

I've been a very earlier adopter in the Dolby Digital receiver (Oct 1996), DVD (May 1997) and HDTV (Nov 1998) technologies. I'm ready to get into both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, except for the fact that my 65" HDTV does not have HDMI inputs. But considering the age of my set, I can see myself replacing this set within the next year, currently I have my eye on the recently released Sony VPL-VW100 SXRD 1080p projector. Once the high def players come out and are shown to be 100% compatible with this projector, I'll probably break down (literally in the sense of how I'm going to get my 65" set out of the basement) and purchase the projector and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

I paid about $650US for the Toshiba SD-3006 model that was introduced at launch. It had a component output. The more entry level unit the SD-2006 only had S-video at best.

My Toshiba SD 5109 was $1000 CDN at employee cost when they first came out in 2000. The unit sold for $1200 ish. (It was also a time when the CDN $ was worth 62 cents US.)

I'll be getting both types of players ... as they come out.

Regards

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I'm pretty sure that's the first one I had(about 500 bucks from SoundCity). I replaced it about a year later with another model from Toshiba with component out. :b I gave my brother the early Toshiba, and it's still running strong. My parents have the more expensive one, and it's starting to give them problems on dual layer discs.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

This is pretty close to the same information I gathered on the SD-5109 in 2000. I know I was unable to find it for sale anywhere, including through direct distributors on both coasts for less than $700, and believe me... I was looking hard, as I had no interest in spending any where near $3,000 on the Panasonic model!

 

[Holadem]

I bought my Tosh SD2109 in Dec 1999 for $199.99. It was a hard choice between a handful of similarly priced brand name players: Sony 330 (or 360), Panny A110 or A120 and some others.

Quite a few retailers were shipping these units with a bundle of 5 DVDs, Stepmom was one of them, perhaps Lost in Space was another. And maybe Contact.

--
H

 

[BrettGallman]

I'm going to be a semi-early adopter this time by having a PS3. I'll probably buy a few titles on that to check out the format. However, I won't buy a stand alone player until either both formats are affordable or if one emerges.

And the way I plan on saving is by cutting out buying any SD discs and just renting. That way I won't add to the number of discs that I'll eventually have to re-buy in HD.