$300 kick butt DVD players (1 Viewer)

[Don_Berg]

Haha, if an HTPC is so great - why does Nicholas keep buying new standalone DVD players every couple months instead of using an HTPC only? Funny how noone else has reported any XP30 failures and Nicholas claims 3 units mysteriously died on him, sorry I just can't believe that claim considering the source, there is no evidence. The XP30 has been out for almost 2 years and has proven its reliablity compared to the older RP62,RP82 model that failed after about 8 months. The Zenith is too early to tell, wait about a year before its reliability is known - but LG's other products like their HD PVR are getting tons of major failure reports.

 

[Nicholas R]

The HTPC is used on my big system and I have a bedroom and rec room system as well. I can afford to try any new standalone I feel like, so I indulge.

 

[DaveGTP]

Again, I say, if the Xp30s fail so much, why isn't there a string of comments on them. You do a google search on XP30 and H02, H04, H07, died, and you get zilch. NADA. Unlike the other Panny players of that generation.

Oh, and it's highly unlikely that the S97 will be better. The responses I've heard are that it does NOT have Faroudja, but Panny's own deinterlacer (just like their current players). Here's a comment from a guy that does web design for Panny (he posts on AVSforum):






And again, you can't trust people's comments. No one besides that keohi.com guy has done a professional review (using scientific test patterns, material, tests for frequency response, etc). You should read the thread on objective audiophilism.


There's a couple posts about professional wine reviewers. They took some cheap wine. In the expensive, fancy bottle it got good reviews. In the cheap bottle, it got poor reviews. There's always a bias, conscious or not.


AGAIN - It's fine for you to think the Zenith is the best. But it's rare that there really is one BEST. And you have no evidence to support it beyond testimonials.


And as far as HTPCs - most of the secrets reviews concluded that the DVD player software was using mostly flag-based decoding. Thus, they failed tests that the Faroudja and SI passed, as far as proper de-interlacing without artifacts.
Yes, they are excellent for scaling to match native rez of digital displays.


There's more to video quality than resolution. This same type of argument pops up in regard to the Panny ED vs HD plasmas, and 720p LCD vs 480p DLP. Most of us think that there is more to video quality than resolution.
A good MPEG decoder is one of those things when it comes to DVD players. And until someone either
A) Knows what MPEG decoder is in the unit
B) Has thoroughly tested the MPEG decoder

we won't quite know.

Comments like "blows it away", "kicks the snot out of", etc, tell me (or any other skeptical person) nothing about the player. Bose people would likely tell me that Bose delivers "mind-blowing, lifelike sound" or some such nonsense. Without evidence, it means nothing.

 

[Don_Berg]

Yes Dave, thats been my experience too. I can easily see combing artifacts with the PC DVD players like WinDVD that my XP30 doesn't have. The new S97 isn't out yet and there have been conflicting reports if it will have Faroudja, but its DVI output only (like the Samsung) if it has it. Since Nicholas is the only one claiming XP30 failures (3 of them!) if thats true its obviously something unique he is doing wrong since noone else has such problems.

 

[Nicholas R]

No see you're wrong. I will know. I don't need someone to measure it before I believe if it's good or bad. Trust yourself not some lab rats. I'll know tomorrow.

 

[DaveGTP]

BOSE is the best! You audiophiles don't know anything! Listen to your ears and you'll find out Bose is the best! BOSE totally BLOWZ away those "audiophile" speakers.


LOL, I've heard the BOSE argument before. It also goes along with Magnetic Bracelets, the Flat Earth conspiracy theory, and Astrology. There's no arguing with it.


Never mind, no more discussion on this. You can't argue with that kind of illogic. You've made it clear on many threads that you believe that the Zenith is superior and everyone else is being silly for considering something else. Fine.

Perhaps you only watch well-authored DVD movies. Maybe you can't ever see combing, or a deinterlacing artifact, etc. But many of us can, and care about them, and feel that it is a major important factor in choosing a DVD player. That's why we discuss the pros and cons of the players.

I find the keohi review of the player by an ISF tech more trustworthy than 1000 user reviews! It was definitely a deciding factor in my decision to try and pick one up (thanks to the 910 jitter problem).

 

[Nicholas R]

Who the hell mentioned Bose? They're the worst loudspeakers ever inflicted upon mankind.

 

[Nicholas R]

Perhaps someday you'll trust yourself. I buy products long before anyone has a chance to review them. I don't need someone else to reassure me as to what I buy. I do quite a good job of that myself. Again your Bose comment is most confusing. I'm into true high end but perhaps you've never had that luxury. Anyways this is boring. The Zenith is a great cheap player. And I don't watch "cartoons" or much video as I am into films.

 

[DaveGTP]

The Bose comment is because they have exactly the same rationalization for their product. Only their own ears matter, all scientific testing and fact are ignored.

And the first thing you learn in any intro Psych class is how easily you can be fooled, oftentimes, by yourself. Look up "placebo effect" for the most startling example of this, if you haven't heard of it. Or read the objective audiophilism thread over in the speakers area - a lot of good examples there.

There's a reason for the Double blind Testing standard, and for an untouched control group in pscychological studies, etc.

 

[Nicholas R]

I have a master in psych but thanks for the brush up. I earned a living for 15 years deciding which products a VERY high end store would carry, and doing professional equipment reviews. I know live music and good reproduction of such like the back of my hand. This has carried over into my video endeavours as well. Again to even mention Ambrose or his lunacy in this thread makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Oh yes I also have played cello in a professional orchestra for the last 12 years.

 

[DaveGTP]

So, you have a master's in pysch, you should know how easy it is for people to be fooled!

And see, perhaps your viewing material is at fault. Will you accept, perhaps, some of us watch many varied types of material, which could be misflagged, and thus we care about a good scientific test of the deinterlacing and mpeg decoding capabilities of the player? And since we haven't seen this evidence our opinions are still up in the air, and that doesn't necessarily make us foolish or stupid? And leave it at that?

Because argument between a subjectivist and an objectivist doesn't really go anywhere, and we've got DVD players to discuss!

 

[Nicholas R]

I have no problems with differing opinions, what I do take issue with is when a person gets obsessed to the point of ridiculousness with a piece of gear. I probably go through 40 DVD players a year. I have no allegiance to one over another but I will most definitely give my opinion.

 

[Don_Berg]

40 DVD players in a year! I'd say you are the one "obsessed" - thats almost a new player every week! You must be mis-handling them or something. Send us all the players you discard if you are so rich, I'll take those 3 XP30s.

 

[Nicholas R]

Again if you took the time to read properly I can afford to indulge my hobby and I do. Unlike you I am not married to one product. I have enough money to frankly buy whatever the hell I want to so I do. Makes life a lot more fun than playing with YOUR "unit" all the time. Most players are horrendous so I sell them off or I give them to charities here in town. I don't quite consider you a charity......yet.

 

[Don_Berg]

I just can't see how anyone can get tired of anything in barely a week! New models don't come out that fast. Your claim that "most are horrendous" is because you don't wait and read reviews and the valuable technical reports by Secrets. The bad model players I had in the past was because of that approach too. But I wised up and after careful researching and reading the Secrets reports and confirming the tests myself I got an XP30 and it exceeded its reputation. I wouldn't buy a new model "blind" ever again.

In any case even you must admit that your situation isn't the case for most people. The majority want to buy something that lasts for years - the XP30 has proven its quality and reliability to stand the test of time! Until new HD-DVD format players come out there is no reason to upgrade from an XP30 unless it fails, which is higly unlikely for several years. If I had millions I wouldn't spend it on new DVD players, I'd give the cash directly to worthy charities.

 

[Nicholas R]

I don't care about the "SECRETS REVIEWS". We don't all need our hands held Don. I buy and try whatever I feel like buying. I don't need someone to tell me what's good and what's not.

 

[DaveGTP]

I'm not going to discuss DVD players here at HTF any more. I can't take the hostility from posts like above anymore. I guess I will take my discussion somewhere else.

Later, and to the orig. poster, I'm sorry your thread ended up so de-railed. Lately the DVD threads have been going this way.

 

[Don_Berg]

I agree Dave, I smell something "fishy" here - why would a multi-millionaire spend so much time posting trashing top-rated DVD players and the "secrets" video experts. If I had those millions I wouldn't spend it online all the time to post such stuff in A/V forum - I wouldn't care what others use and enjoy, I would be off enjoying the fruits of my wealth! Nicholas's observations just don't agree with anyone else and his story rings false too - he's probably a geeky kid with too much time on his hands and enjoys invading these threads as a TROLL.

 

[Nicholas R]

I will not lower myself to making a personal attack like you have. I do not have this same obsession with a product you do. I am hardly a multimillionaire, nor have I ever trashed any DVD player, I have always implicitly stated that the XP30 was a good, pleasant, budget player in it's day. That is hardly trashing.I've just never had the religious fervour for it you do. I don't need to continually validate anything I purchase.
You might try to heed much of the advice you're passing off yourself.

Now I am off to watch a movie on a player I happen to like this week. Not one I feel the need to feverishly uphold the honour of. Oh yes I have sold off the LG/Zenith so there goes any possibility of being called a fanboy.
Thanks for labelling me a troll. Nothing like a good ad hom when intelligent words fail you.
And I assume you're thinking one has to be a Thurston Howell the Third in order to buy different DVD players is a sort of "joke" Good one too Donald.

 

[Jay Blair]

Nicholas,

Please do a great favor and post a quick review of the S97 as soon as you get a chance.