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Discussion in 'Speakers' started by LanceJ, Aug 11, 2004.
Read about it here.
The sub crossover/integrator certainly looks interesting.
Very expensive though, I saw the little ss2 for 5k.
How about 700 pounds, two 18" woofers, and 112 dB at 16 Hz?
That one is here.
How could 18" woofers be practical in an HT environment?
"practical" and "HT environment" mean very different things to different people.
I have taken a close look at these subs (talked to Jim Thiel directly at CES) and while expensive, I have to give Thiel credit. At the bottom of the page of specs there is this tidbit:
"(Output levels are with corner room placement— subtract 12 dB if the subwoofer is well away from all walls; subtract 6 dB if it's close to only one wall.)"
Bravo for someone actually defining their measurment conditions when throwing around output numbers. Of course they made a minor ommision of not specifying distance. I will do a little modeling later and see where the numbers fall in terms of potential output from a pair of beefy 15" woofers. I would guess them safe for 2" p-p very cleanly. I wouldn't discount the factor about eliminating compression due to heating and excursion up to some output limit. What I heard did sound good, just a bit expensive for the quantity of output. But I would wager the SS3 & SS4 would still compete very strongly in performance outside of SVS's world and my own. They do look very nice in silver, and are built very well.
Like anything, value is in the eye/ear of the the purchaser.
What do you mean? I don't understand your question.
Also like to add: Wilson Audio Specialties XS Subwoofer is $18,200.00 and $4,000.00 for the crossover. WOW.
Actually, the WOWW was a previous subwoofer they made.
Forgot about that one. But I did mean WOW as in HOLY CRAP, THAT'S EXPENSIVE.
I would think that a DIY IB subwoofer with, say, multiple Adire Audio Tumult drivers would outperform these commercial subs (and be less expensive at the same time).
'How could 18" woofers be practical in an HT environment?'
How is a 1000 watt amp for a sub practical for an HT environment?
Its not. many or most here are HT and audio enthusiasts. we arent practical, we always want more. ever hear of upgraditis? having a descent surround receiver and a descent setup is practical, anything else is FUN
I'm sure Wilson makes a hell of a loudspeaker. I know their cabinets are state of the art. In fact I have heard a few and thought they were good. I mean what a concept, giant speakers like a wall over 6 feet up, pointing at you, blasting you with music. And at their prices, their stuff sounds good too? What a deal! I wonder if they are known more for there extreme pricing, or their performance. What, IMHO, would be a true test of skill and knowledge would be for them to make a speaker in the Paradigm, DefTech, Totem, range and see if they can compete. To ME that is where the magic is. Hey listen to what these speakers sound like and it only cost how much? Awesome!
I know there is a place for the Merceedes, Rolls Royces' in the world, and that's fine. Hell if I could afford them I wouldn't! But is it really magic? Should it really be so critically acclaimed? Are you paying for the monoliths sitting in your house or something else?
Sorry everyone! Please get back on topic.
I would certainly hope it would be less expensive.
I'll defer to a current discussion on AVS Forum:
........and would be almost "invisable",especially if one uses the manifold box and mount it in the attic or basement.It seems that "room correction" is all the "rage" among submakers,well it's about time,however all the electronic "help" that these designs incorporate just to protect the driver from self distract, reminds us that there is no way around Hoffman's iron law.
There are better choices than the Tumult for an IB application. The Cult of IB website has some type of output/$$ comparison, and the Tumult ranks midpack, IIRC.
While the Tumult is clearly one of the most powerful woofers on the planet, for an IB application using a transition box, 4 AV15 or 4 Tempests would have a much better output/$$ ratio.
IB is cool; I enjoyed the dual AV15 unit we designed/built recently, and we left space for two more AV15's (heh heh heh).
Oh I'm not impressed. I've owned 4 different models of that sub (all used, all without warranty transfer, one before it was even sold to the public) and I Hate, Hate, Hate Thiel. All I have to say to back up this hatred of Thiel is "think SVS and you'll know what I mean".
(NOTE - The above is satire, it is not for public consumption as an actual review. I have never owned a Thiel, used or otherwise. Readers of various SVS threads will recognize the references).
Well, from the reading I've done (I admit I don't have personal experience with all different woofer sizes) I've always been under the impression that the larger the woofer the slower the response.
It seems like using 18" cones in a sub would slow the response down noticabely. Again, just from what I understand.
as long as there is a ballence between the size of the motor and the size of the cone, there is no reason an 18 couldnt be as "fast" as a 12.
FWIW, HERE is a chart of common woofers if you were trying to compare value for woofers in an IB.
Bill Duddleston, founder of Legacy Audio, had roughly this to say when asked why he used 12 inch drivers instead of 8 inch drivers in the Focus, (the person asking the questions had the belief that the 8 inch drivers were "faster") ....
"Air works much like liquid, but you cannot see what is going on with air, so I will use water as an analogy. If you were in a rowboat, which would move out water faster, an 8 inch wide bucket, or a 12 inch wide bucket?"
The answer "Assuming you have the strength to handle it, the 12 inch wide bucket would be more than twice as fast as the 8 inch"
Thus... ... making up the strength...a properly designed 18 inch driver/system will be every bit as articulate as a 12 inch system...