Since the new CBA has been ratified, I guess it's time to post this thread.
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2022 MLB Season (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Robert Crawford
- Start date
Rumors are the Dodgers are closing in on signing Freddie Freeman.
Well, my Yankees made an interesting trade last night. So far, most Yankees fans hate the trade. I'm more of lukewarm to it because if Donaldson plays about the same amount of games and gives us the same production as 2021, then it's a successful trade in my opinion. The key is getting rid of Sanchez as catcher because he had to go.
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I am not a fan of the DH in the NL as I understand it, the shift is now also against the rules. and A Pitch clock. Strike 3
The shift hasn’t been banned yet neither has the pitch clock been instituted for the 2022 season.
Damn, the Padres just announced that Tatis broke his wrist during the offseason and will need surgery so he's expected to miss the next three months.
Wow, Pete Alonzo just avoided a tragedy.
www.mlbtraderumors.com
Pete Alonso Involved In Car Accident, Not Expected To Miss Time
Mets star Pete Alonso told reporters (including Tim Britton of the Athletic) this morning that he was involved in a scary car …
www.mlbtraderumors.com
Tatis -- broken wrist apparently from Motorcycle wreck a couple months ago. Out for 3 months. I wonder if he had some sort of no Motocycle clause that teams starting writing into contracts after Ron Gant broke his leg after signing a big contract and was never the same afterwards.
Alonso narrowly misses major disaster
Braves rumored to have potentially committed Franchise Suicide by letting Freeman go and going out to get Matt Olson. I really hope the Executives get booed out of the stadium doing the Ring Ceremony since the heart of the Franchise, Team MVP for years, NL MVP in 2020, WS MVP last year won't even be there. I hope Season ticket and Luxury Box holders demand a refund on their season tickets, everyone shows up 3 hrs before the game and chant Freeman's Name for hours, then walk out en-masse as soon as the Ceremony starts leaving Covid style Freeman Cardboard cutouts in the empty seats. Not a single souvenir sold, not a single Refreshment sold, and a boycott of The Battery and every sponsor of the team.
If Olson regresses into 2018 and 2020 and/or Braves don't lock him up for 6+ years then it only gets worse.
I'm so seriously disgusted at this organization that refused to give up an extra 30M for a 6th year for this generations version of Chipper Jones. Not only do they lose Freddie Freeman, but just destroyed any future negotiations for current in-franchise players. No more team friendly deals since they have now proven they that aren't going to protect their own
Alonso narrowly misses major disaster
Braves rumored to have potentially committed Franchise Suicide by letting Freeman go and going out to get Matt Olson. I really hope the Executives get booed out of the stadium doing the Ring Ceremony since the heart of the Franchise, Team MVP for years, NL MVP in 2020, WS MVP last year won't even be there. I hope Season ticket and Luxury Box holders demand a refund on their season tickets, everyone shows up 3 hrs before the game and chant Freeman's Name for hours, then walk out en-masse as soon as the Ceremony starts leaving Covid style Freeman Cardboard cutouts in the empty seats. Not a single souvenir sold, not a single Refreshment sold, and a boycott of The Battery and every sponsor of the team.
If Olson regresses into 2018 and 2020 and/or Braves don't lock him up for 6+ years then it only gets worse.
I'm so seriously disgusted at this organization that refused to give up an extra 30M for a 6th year for this generations version of Chipper Jones. Not only do they lose Freddie Freeman, but just destroyed any future negotiations for current in-franchise players. No more team friendly deals since they have now proven they that aren't going to protect their own
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Jeff Brooks
Second Unit
You are correct on all counts. If they really had wanted to keep Freeman, they would have wrapped him up this time last year. He was not only a great player, but the heart of the team.
No way he should have started 2021 without the extension.
And the same negotiators that gave Marcell Ozuna (no position to play in 2021 and pre-NL DH even before his legal troubles) 4 years/$65M in the 2020 offseason which he has now played 0 games. As far as I can tell, that $65 was guaranteed and they may be on the hook for the whole thing. The fact that Ozuna had 4 mediocre to poor years (for an atrocious LF/DH) out of the previous 5 and more than one character issue until the short 2020 vs FF with 10 years of exemplary performance on/off the field just makes the whole thing worse
And the same negotiators that gave Marcell Ozuna (no position to play in 2021 and pre-NL DH even before his legal troubles) 4 years/$65M in the 2020 offseason which he has now played 0 games. As far as I can tell, that $65 was guaranteed and they may be on the hook for the whole thing. The fact that Ozuna had 4 mediocre to poor years (for an atrocious LF/DH) out of the previous 5 and more than one character issue until the short 2020 vs FF with 10 years of exemplary performance on/off the field just makes the whole thing worse
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Unlike the NFL or even the NBA, that doesn't happen in MLB. Contracts are usually fulfilled by players and teams.
It's interesting that Freeman is still out there after the Braves bailed on him. I guess other suitors have jumped in the mix, but reports over the weekend indicated that he was close to signing with some team. I guess that wasn't accurate at all.
But they were by all reports close to signing that extension in the 2020 off season and it seems plenty of Baseball deals are done to prevent Star players from getting into that last year without a longer deal. All Freddie apparently wanted was a 6th year on top of the 5/140 the Braves apparently offered which would have taken him to 37 or 38 yo and wasn't out of line wiht a couple other deals midmarkets had done for lesser players. He wasn't asking for a 10 year or 15 year deal like had been done in the past (Arod, Pujols, etc). His performance certainly warranted it, him accepted his first long contract at a significant Home Team discount when the Braves tanked several years to rebuild and preparing to move to the new Stadium. He could easily have gotten more money to move a team or 3 who were playoff contenders and at least 2 won WS in that time
Again, back room leaks seemed to indicate that FF was told if he continued to perform and hung around to help the team re-form he would be rewarded the next contract (I have no direct knowledge he was told this, but I do/did have a couple indirect contacts who confirmed this kind of agreement). I think over the last 4-5 years Freeman certainly performed above and beyond what was expected increasing his performance significantly above projections -- Gold Glove, League MVP, and then dragging his team kicking and screaming to a WS all while being Clean, Unarrested, a huge influence on the younger players, and a major force in teh Atlanta Ambassador.
I'm not entirely sure Albies and Acuna would have signed their deals (Albies took half what he could/should have) with Freddie leading the way with similar deal years ago and thinking that showed the Team was going to take care of their own. I think from a team future standpoint, this king of behaviour dumping your Team Leader when he was begging to be signed is going to come back to bite them in the ass for future FA deals both internally and externally. Atlanta already has some major issues getting players to want to come to the City and this kind of unnecessary slap in the face makes an already difficult job that much harder losing one of the big draws I think the Braves had for being Player Friendly at least internally
I do think it was a Braves/Dodgers thing until the Braves bailed early and other teams (Blue Jays specifically) saw an opening where it suddenly wasn't an either/or thing. If the Dodgers had pulled out instead of Atlanta I;m not sure the others would have jumped in so hard -- if you're going to move on anyway, might as well be Us. I didn't actually remember Freeman being a Dual Citizen nor playing with the 2017 Canadian WBC team -- both his parents were Canadian and his Mom died when he was 10yo of Malignant Melanoma so playing for the National team was his way to pay tribute (what a putz).
Hey, but the Braves have Marcell Ozuna for 3 or 4 more years at a measly 16M per. Might as well go trade for Bauer now.
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MartinP.
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Please do!
Olson signed his extension 8 years $170 more or less. Basically figuring his Arb2 and Arb 3 yrs would probably have come to 27-30M -- that's 6 years $140 on top. Now the hope is he doesn't play like his odd/even past years
So they signed Olson for 21M over the next eight years plus a club option for a ninth season at 20M. I now understand what the Braves did here and why they passed on Freeman. I heard Freeman was looking for 180M over the next six years.
Purely from a projection+value (and contention window) standpoint, replacing Freeman w/ Olson (particularly w/ this new contract extension) probably makes sense -- Freeman is likely on his way down from his peak/prime sooner rather than later (at 32yo-plus) whereas Olson has apparently just reached his peak/prime (at almost 28yo) w/ likely a few more years before he gets to where Freeman already is and eventually starts to wind down himself...
Of course, fans won't like losing Freeman that way, so it's at best a bittersweet turn...
FWIW, one writer I read actually closed his article on this w/ an Orson Welles quote: "“If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story.”
_Man_
Of course, fans won't like losing Freeman that way, so it's at best a bittersweet turn...
FWIW, one writer I read actually closed his article on this w/ an Orson Welles quote: "“If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story.”
_Man_
All dependent on how fast FF declines and when it starts. His skill set and physical condition seems to indicate a later and slower decline than many. He hasn't had knee or back issues like Cabrera and Pujols (plus there's always been the Date of Birth argument with Pujols anyway with some thinking he was a couple years older) -- partially indicated by performance, flexibility, fielding, and baserunning skills which not only haven;t declined, but are still improving. FF doesn't have the weight issue of some other sluggers have had
Olson has plenty of upside, but some disturbing peripherals including his lower BA and hard hit ball %. He had a below average 2018 and a beyond awful 2020. 2 of his 4.5 years in the major with BA below 250 and K rate 1:3 is a bit worrisome to me. He changed some things with his swing last year with excellent results, but as has been seen over and over -- you adjust, the league readjusts, how fast can you catch up. New League for Olson and his Interleague numbers of the last 3-4 years haven't been great -- again how fast does he adjust.
All this is of course up in the air until we see how he adjusts not only to the new league, but to being back in his hometown replacing "Chipper." Some players really don't respond well to either situation
Don;t think there's a lot to argue on Freeman's intangibles. Injuries can go either direction so can't really predict either. I will say, Olson's violent swing might be a bit concerning to those who evaluate mechanics and back injuries
Arguably replacing 6/180 with 8/170 (or 9/190) will look fine IF the performance even comes close. but that still neglects the potential effects of the 4 prospects -- if even 2 of these guys turn into long term average to above average players (or one All Star or forgive me 2 All Stars among them) then all of a sudden things shift in a hurry.
1) Pache is widely regarded as the best defensive CF at least in the Minors and some think he's already top 3 among Major Leaguers. If he hits at all, he's Andruw Jones in the field and a passable offensive player. I do have some question whether he's Heredia with better defense or something a bit better, but he's at worst a Major League backup with GG defense and 70+ speed, 75-80 arm strenght and excellent instincts.
2) Langoliers is thought to be the best catchers throwing arm in the high minors and have heard more than one scout say he's more than major league ready defensively. Offensively he has 20HR potential and will be in the majors at least 2023 if not this year. The Braves will need a catcher soon and really don't have a good prospect closer than Low A so that means making do with the scrap heap or buying another good catcher off the market. He actually would likely be Major League likely this year except for the minor league shutdown in 2020 so he's a year behind where he should be, but his first full year with wood bat in AA was pretty good.
3) the 22 yo Pitcher 6'6" with 102mph entering AA this year. He's a boom or bust type pitcher I think is slated fo the bullpen as a Relief Pitcher and conceivably closer if he can develop his control and like many of these tall pithcers they often bloom a bit lately when they get their mechanics consistent. Very impressive jumping straight to A-ball after the draft last year and only 16 innings, but 4 BB vs 32 K was impressive.
4) the 20 yo RHP Estes 6'2" 180lb with a mid 90's FB and better secondary stuff already and by all reports already excellent control. A lot depends on whether 180 is his actual body frame or if he';s the type that could put on 20lbs muscle at 21-23yo. He's just too young to know, but his performance at A ball at a pretty young age was pretty impressive. Long term I think he has a better chance to be a starter, but he needs to show his stuff at least at AA before folks get too excited-- as a 19yo in A Ball sub 3 ERA in 100 inning, and over 4.4 :1 K/BB ratio and K/9ip over 12
Olson has plenty of upside, but some disturbing peripherals including his lower BA and hard hit ball %. He had a below average 2018 and a beyond awful 2020. 2 of his 4.5 years in the major with BA below 250 and K rate 1:3 is a bit worrisome to me. He changed some things with his swing last year with excellent results, but as has been seen over and over -- you adjust, the league readjusts, how fast can you catch up. New League for Olson and his Interleague numbers of the last 3-4 years haven't been great -- again how fast does he adjust.
All this is of course up in the air until we see how he adjusts not only to the new league, but to being back in his hometown replacing "Chipper." Some players really don't respond well to either situation
Don;t think there's a lot to argue on Freeman's intangibles. Injuries can go either direction so can't really predict either. I will say, Olson's violent swing might be a bit concerning to those who evaluate mechanics and back injuries
Arguably replacing 6/180 with 8/170 (or 9/190) will look fine IF the performance even comes close. but that still neglects the potential effects of the 4 prospects -- if even 2 of these guys turn into long term average to above average players (or one All Star or forgive me 2 All Stars among them) then all of a sudden things shift in a hurry.
1) Pache is widely regarded as the best defensive CF at least in the Minors and some think he's already top 3 among Major Leaguers. If he hits at all, he's Andruw Jones in the field and a passable offensive player. I do have some question whether he's Heredia with better defense or something a bit better, but he's at worst a Major League backup with GG defense and 70+ speed, 75-80 arm strenght and excellent instincts.
2) Langoliers is thought to be the best catchers throwing arm in the high minors and have heard more than one scout say he's more than major league ready defensively. Offensively he has 20HR potential and will be in the majors at least 2023 if not this year. The Braves will need a catcher soon and really don't have a good prospect closer than Low A so that means making do with the scrap heap or buying another good catcher off the market. He actually would likely be Major League likely this year except for the minor league shutdown in 2020 so he's a year behind where he should be, but his first full year with wood bat in AA was pretty good.
3) the 22 yo Pitcher 6'6" with 102mph entering AA this year. He's a boom or bust type pitcher I think is slated fo the bullpen as a Relief Pitcher and conceivably closer if he can develop his control and like many of these tall pithcers they often bloom a bit lately when they get their mechanics consistent. Very impressive jumping straight to A-ball after the draft last year and only 16 innings, but 4 BB vs 32 K was impressive.
4) the 20 yo RHP Estes 6'2" 180lb with a mid 90's FB and better secondary stuff already and by all reports already excellent control. A lot depends on whether 180 is his actual body frame or if he';s the type that could put on 20lbs muscle at 21-23yo. He's just too young to know, but his performance at A ball at a pretty young age was pretty impressive. Long term I think he has a better chance to be a starter, but he needs to show his stuff at least at AA before folks get too excited-- as a 19yo in A Ball sub 3 ERA in 100 inning, and over 4.4 :1 K/BB ratio and K/9ip over 12
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David, the Braves have a really good GM. He's aggressive and smart as a whip. He'll take chances so we'll see how this situation works out for the Braves and their fans.
As with all trades (the one's you do and the one;s you don't) you can't evaluate fully often until (much) later, but upfront I'm obviously not at all happy with the tradeoffs. We'll see in 10 years whether the name Milt Pappas or John Smoltz or or Lou Brock/Joe Morgan, or Pujols is attached as a comparison someday.
Braves GM seems pretty good at least negotiating contracts and fixing off season mistakes on the fly. A's and Rays organizations have shown an amazing amt of skill at raiding other teams young cheap good to great players. If either organization had enough cash to keep a handful of High Dollar talent to go with their bargain basement finds it would be scary.
Offseason all we as team or Baseball fans can do is play along with the what if game. Front Office errors, fiascos, potential blunders or strokes of genius are all part of the Computer Screen Geniuses that we all assume ourselves to be whether it's the NFL or MLB. During the year we all play Armchair Manager as part of the game.
Braves GM seems pretty good at least negotiating contracts and fixing off season mistakes on the fly. A's and Rays organizations have shown an amazing amt of skill at raiding other teams young cheap good to great players. If either organization had enough cash to keep a handful of High Dollar talent to go with their bargain basement finds it would be scary.
Offseason all we as team or Baseball fans can do is play along with the what if game. Front Office errors, fiascos, potential blunders or strokes of genius are all part of the Computer Screen Geniuses that we all assume ourselves to be whether it's the NFL or MLB. During the year we all play Armchair Manager as part of the game.
David,
2018 was just Olson's 1st full season (at age 24) following a pretty awesome rookie 1/2 season in 2017... and he wasn't as bad as you probably think that year anyway -- subpar compared to Freeman or even the rest of Olson's output to-date, except for the flukey 2020 60-game season that easily deserves a mulligan (as w/ many other good players).
Of course, Olson isn't actually Freeman at the same age, but Freeman won't be either (of himself 4-1/2 years younger) going forward.
The Braves front office seems to have done plenty right (at least in terms of actual production vs spending) so far -- and I don't know that you can blame them too much about the Ozuna situation as that signing seemed a pretty good one until it went south in rather unexpected way... and might still turn out ok enough...
For instance, their signings of Acuna and (especially) Albies seem to have been major coups... probably easily make up for the cost of Ozuna even if he never plays again -- and Ozuna's probably a better player than you seem to give him credit...
_Man_
2018 was just Olson's 1st full season (at age 24) following a pretty awesome rookie 1/2 season in 2017... and he wasn't as bad as you probably think that year anyway -- subpar compared to Freeman or even the rest of Olson's output to-date, except for the flukey 2020 60-game season that easily deserves a mulligan (as w/ many other good players).
Of course, Olson isn't actually Freeman at the same age, but Freeman won't be either (of himself 4-1/2 years younger) going forward.
The Braves front office seems to have done plenty right (at least in terms of actual production vs spending) so far -- and I don't know that you can blame them too much about the Ozuna situation as that signing seemed a pretty good one until it went south in rather unexpected way... and might still turn out ok enough...
For instance, their signings of Acuna and (especially) Albies seem to have been major coups... probably easily make up for the cost of Ozuna even if he never plays again -- and Ozuna's probably a better player than you seem to give him credit...
_Man_
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