What's new

2021 Oscar Nominations And Discussion Thread. (2 Viewers)

Jake Lipson

Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
15,123
Real Name
Jake Lipson
Being serious here, I think the unique nature of this specific multi-location ceremony calls for a host who can tie everything all together in as cohesively as possible. So I think doing it without a host this year in particular is a mistake. But they seem very committed to the no host thing. When Kevin Hart was removed, they kind of had no choice because it was too late in the game to get somebody else. Since they have continued with the no host format in the years since that fiasco, it appears that ABC and the Academy think it is more effective without a host.
 

Jake Lipson

Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
15,123
Real Name
Jake Lipson
Chloé Zhao just won at the Directors Guild for Nomadland. Following the Producers Guild and several other precursor awards, it looks like that film has Best Picture and Best Director lined up at the Oscars.

I didn't love Nomadland so I'm not particularly thrilled about this, but I can't deny that it is extremely well-put-together by Zhao. I just wish I found it more interesting and investible than I did.

Interestingly enough, Zhao's next movie is Eternals for Marvel. If she wins for Nomadland, I think it would make her the first Best Director winner who also made a film for Marvel. I wonder if their appreciation of her work will make the Academy pay attention to Eternals for the next race or if they will continue to ignore Marvel as is almost always the case.
 

Mike Frezon

Moderator
Premium
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
56,518
Location
Rensselaer, NY
And Ernie and Pete could be the models that bring out the statues and escort the people off stage.

If the Academy goes for that we might set viewership records. Some people might tune in to see Scarlett, too. And then there's Josh and my Mom... This could really turn into something.
 

MartinP.

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
1,262
Real Name
Martin
Harry Potter was also based on literature and it did not win a single award for any of its original eight films.

I almost wrote this as an aside in my first post, but since you mentioned it... When I said LOTR had a pedigree, part of that is that it has a history. It was around for some decades. And The Hobbit was published over 15 years before LOTR.

The Harry Potter books were new and many just thought of it as "for children". Also, in your face success breeds contempt in some and the popularity and attention given to it I wager added into that. (Remember La La Land?) I don't know if J.K. Rowling being a woman played into it, but is it out of the question?

Some initial notable book reviewers were also less than impressed, like this one on Kirkus Reviews: "This isn't literature. These are one-dimensional children's books, Disney cartoons written in words, no more.”

The Return of the King was the film that the Academy liked in 2003. The fact that it swept every single award for which it was nominated demonstrates that the Academy was serious about honoring its achievement. If it won Best Picture by default because there wasn't much else, it wouldn't have been able to sweep all the other categories as well.
I'm not suggesting it won by default, but 2003 was not a stellar year for nominees and LOTR had a leg up with it being the third time to be nominated, a plus, so what else was going to win that year out of: Lost in Translation, Master and Commander, Mystic River, Seabiscuit. Was there even a second choice? Not even close. How often do any of those films enter the conversation since then?
 

Joe Wong

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 8, 1999
Messages
634
Chloé Zhao just won at the Directors Guild for Nomadland. Following the Producers Guild and several other precursor awards, it looks like that film has Best Picture and Best Director lined up at the Oscars.

I didn't love Nomadland so I'm not particularly thrilled about this, but I can't deny that it is extremely well-put-together by Zhao. I just wish I found it more interesting and investible than I did.

Interestingly enough, Zhao's next movie is Eternals for Marvel. If she wins for Nomadland, I think it would make her the first Best Director winner who also made a film for Marvel. I wonder if their appreciation of her work will make the Academy pay attention to Eternals for the next race or if they will continue to ignore Marvel as is almost always the case.

I'm thinking Disney/Marvel are waiting till after the Oscars before releasing the first trailer for Eternals.

After all, "From Chloe Zhao, the Oscar-winning director of Nomadland..." is a nice line to add to the marketing.
 

Joe Wong

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 8, 1999
Messages
634
There are many people who don't like superhero films (like those from Marvel), and that's perfectly fine. As I mentioned in another thread, to each his/her/their own. Opinions are subjective.

But there does seem to be some resentment against these superhero franchises for dominating the industry. However, it it the filmmakers' fault for providing this genre of entertainment to as many people as possible? If they weren't successful, then the studios would move on to something else.

As such, the success or otherwise of these franchises speaks more to the the tastes of viewers than anything else. I, for one (and I believe, Jake Lipson and Josh Steinberg, as well, amongst other HTF members) like the MCU - the storytelling, the characters, the interconnectivity, in addition to the expected action and special effects.

I also think Endgame should have been considered for major Oscars, if nothing else than for the skill in concluding a 22-film arc in grand, satisfying style.
 

Jake Lipson

Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
15,123
Real Name
Jake Lipson
I'm thinking Disney/Marvel are waiting till after the Oscars before releasing the first trailer for Eternals.

Because Eternals isn't on the schedule until November, I don't think they need to start the marketing for a while. The natural fit for that would be to attach it to either Cruella in May or Black Widow in July. The MCU has never been something where they need to advertise the director in the marketing because the MCU is the brand. They certainly could drop Zhao's name in the marketing if they want to, but I don't think they have to in order to sell it.

As such, the success or otherwise of these franchises speaks more to the the tastes of viewers than anything else.

That's the thing. What is going on here is a disconnect between what the Academy thinks is worthwhile and what audiences think is worthwhile. I have said many times before around the forum that if you nominate really good movies that audiences have seen and nominate some smaller films, then that would help the smaller films. People would be curious about the smaller films that are nominated alongside the smaller ones. People would look at the list and say, "Hey, I saw Avengers and Toy Story 4. What is this Parasite movie that is also nominated?"

Instead, by choosing to routinely exclude nominees that a wide audience is familiar with, the Academy is greatly speeding up their own irrelevance. If an average moviegoer looks at the list of films that are nominated and doesn't see anything they already know, then the chances are they probably won't care about investing in the awards at all. Again, I'm not saying that a popular movie should win just because It is popular. But ignoring well-crafted popular entertainment because it's somehow not sophisticated enough as a whole is not smart.

Yes, every once in a while you get something like Black Panther or Joker which does break through. But those are anomalies which prove the rule that the majority of big blockbuster films are persona non grata at the awards.

Admittedly, this year, there were a smaller number of blockbusters available to the Academy to choose for inclusion because of the pandemic and prolonged theater closures. But this Is far from the only year in which the exclusion of big films has happened, so it is a pattern and not a result solely induced by the pandemic. They've been doing this over and over again for years and the process of doing so is eroding public interest in the Academy.

Was there even a second choice? Not even close. How often do any of those films enter the conversation since then?

I like all of those movies. You are right that they are not frequently discussed anymore, but what the best picture is and what movies are remembered from a given year are often different criteria. I was glad that The Return of the King won and I think it deserved to, but I also think Mystic River would have been an especially strong second choice. It is one of Clint Eastwood's best films in my opinion. He won the award the following year for Million Dollar Baby (which I also liked) and no one really talks about that one much now anymore either outside of the context of listing Best Picture winners.

The Harry Potter books were new and many just thought of it as "for children".

Just as many people thought of them as quality literature as thought they were just for children. You can't get to the degree of success that those books had if adults aren't paying attention to them and respecting them as well.

I don't know if J.K. Rowling being a woman played into it, but is it out of the question?

Yes, it is out of the question. Incidentally, J.K. Rowling is now a member of the Academy. At least, I assume she would have accepted it. They invited her a couple years ago after the release of the first Fantastic Beasts film which she wrote and I didn't see any articles saying that she declined.
 
Last edited:

Tino

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
19,453
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
Some initial notable book reviewers were also less than impressed, like this one on Kirkus Reviews: "This isn't literature. These are one-dimensional children's books, Disney cartoons written in words, no more.”
Did you read any of the books? Well I did, all of them, and that Kirkus review is absurd Imo. The Potter books were all excellent and as much for adults as they were for children I thought.
 

Joe Wong

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 8, 1999
Messages
634
Because Eternals isn't on the schedule until November, I don't think they need to start the marketing for a while. The natural fit for that would be to attach it to either Cruella in May or Black Widow in July. The MCU has never been something where they need to advertise the director in the marketing because the MCU is the brand. They certainly could drop Zhao's name in the marketing if they want to, but I don't think they have to in order to sell it.



That's the thing. What is going on here is a disconnect between what the Academy thinks is worthwhile and what audiences think is worthwhile. I have said many times before around the forum that if you nominate really good movie that audiences have seen and nominate some smaller films, then that would help the smaller films. People would be curious about the smaller films that are nominated alongside the smaller ones. People would look at the list and say, "Hey, I saw Avengers and Toy Story 4 . What is this Parasite movie that is also nominated?"

Instead, by choosing to routinely exclude nominees that a wide audience is familiar with, the Academy is greatly speeding up their own irrelevance. If an average moviegoer looks at the list of films that are nominated and doesn't see anything they already know, then the chances are they probably won't care about investing in the awards at all. Again, I'm not saying that a popular movie should win just because It is popular. But ignoring well-crafted popular entertainment because it's not somehow not sophisticated enough as a whole is not smart.

Yes, every once in a while you get something like Black Panther or Joker which does break through.. But those are anomalies which prove the rule that the majority of big blockbuster films are persona non grata at the awards.

Admittedly, this year, there were a smaller number of blockbusters available to the Academy to choose for inclusion because of the pandemic and prolonged theater closures. But this Is far from the only year in which the exclusion of big films has happened, so it is a pattern and not a result solely induced by the pandemic. They've been doing this over and over again for years and the process of doing so is eroding public interest in the Academy.

Good point about the marketing timeline for Eternals. Though, for Captain Marvel and Avengers: Endgame, the marketing began 5-6 months before release date with the 1st trailer. So, for Eternals, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for them to release a trailer in May, a week or 2 after the Oscars.

Fully agree that the Academy's failure to award Best Picture to acclaimed blockbusters recently has led to the decline in interest in the Oscars. I believe the backlash against the Academy for not nominating 2008's The Dark Knight (both critically acclaimed and a blockbuster) led to their current policy of nominating more than 5 films for Best Picture, in an effort to generate more interest. But it was more like lip service - awarding the Best Picture to a blockbuster has not occurred since LOTR: Return of the King in 2003.

See, for example:


From the chart in the link, no Best Picture winner awarded in the years 2014-2020 (for release in the prior year) has grossed more than $100 million domestically. And I would argue that films like Argo (winner in 2013), The King's Speech (2011), Slumdog Millionaire (2009), and The Departed (2007), which all grossed around $130-140 million, performed relatively well box office-wise, but are not really what would be called blockbusters these days.
 

Matt Hough

Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
23,098
Location
Charlotte, NC
Real Name
Matt Hough
This year's Best Actress race is one for the books. I have NO idea which of those five actresses is going to carry off the prize. Awards groups have split the prizes up with no clear favorite.
 

Tino

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
19,453
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
This year's Best Actress race is one for the books. I have NO idea which of those five actresses is going to carry off the prize. Awards groups have split the prizes up with no clear favorite.
Frances McDormand is the clear favorite imo. Globe. Sag. BAFTA
 

MartinP.

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
1,262
Real Name
Martin
Yes, it is out of the question.

From your reply I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.

Did you read any of the books? Well I did, all of them, and that Kirkus review is absurd Imo. The Potter books were all excellent and as much for adults as they were for children I thought.

Yes, I have read the first two books. I loved them. I think you have the impression I don't like the Harry Potter books and films. I do. I like them much more than the LOTR films. This conversation was sparked because I said LOTR may have been nominated, and many other blockbuster, sci-fi fantasy movies are ignored because it had an established literary pedigree and Jake posited that Harry Potter did, too, and I was offering the reasons it may have been overlooked for nominations whereas LOTR wasn't. I didn't say I agreed with those reasons nor can I confirm any of them.

I certainly disagree with those reviews about the Potter books not being literature and for "kids." I remember a discussion with literary critics on Charlie Rose back then where the "high-minded" panel was sticking their nose up at them. "That's not literature..." one said.

I've seen all the Marvel (and the like) movies as well. Some I really like and some I do not. WW84 was atrocious. (Loved the first one.) They're so incessant though that it becomes annoying. I mean, when one movie's finished you can't even appreciate it because there's an insistent scene or two telling you that you are NOT done, you have to come back for another. And do they all have to be way too long? The movie effects used to be special effects. Now they aren't special effects, they're just visual effects.

Frances McDormand is the clear favorite imo. Globe. Sag. BAFTA

She did not win all those three, so why do you consider her the favorite?

GLOBE: Andra Day won Actress in a Drama for THE UNITED STATES VS. BILLIE HOLIDAY
SAG: Viola Davis won for MA RAINEY'S BLACK BOTTOM
BAFTA: Frances McDormand won for NOMADLAND
CRITICS CHOICE: Carrie Mulligan won for PROMISING YOUNG WOMAN

I don't think McDormand will win actress, she already has two acting Oscars and could pick up another Oscar as one of the Producers of Nomadland.
 
Last edited:

Walter Kittel

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 28, 1998
Messages
7,960
Bill Maher had some thoughts about this year's Oscars on his Friday evening broadcast. I am not going to post a link but interested viewers can find it on You Tube.

- Walter.
 

Jake Lipson

Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
15,123
Real Name
Jake Lipson
The Academy announced several stars who will serve as presenters.


Incidentally, Angela Bassett and Questlove (serving as musical director) are both part of the voice cast of Soul. This is one of the best movies of the year which the Academy refuses to honor as one of the best movies of the year because it is animated and therefore is okay to regulate to a lesser kids table category.

I'm not saying that I expected those involved in Soul to boycott the awards or anything of the sort. And of course they are nominated for Animated Feature and Original Score. I just find the whole thing interesting. Like last year when they booked a lot of Avengers cast members even though they snubbed their movie.

Also, at the bottom of the article it says: "Word is all the nominated songs will be performed for the first time on the pre-show. We shall see."

That feels ridiculous to me as well. What are they doing that for, just so that they can have more Time for awkward presenter banter during the actual awards? The nominated song performances being part of the ceremony is something they should absolutely eep. But they're not asking for my opinion. If they did, Soul would be a Best Picture nominee.

*shrug*
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Sponsors

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
347,083
Messages
4,801,892
Members
141,991
Latest member
narkeshubneha
Top