2021-2022 NFL Season (1 Viewer)

[Winston T. Boogie]

When people show you who they are, believe them.

People don't make racist, homophobic, misogynist comments/jokes unless that's who they are.

I don't doubt Gruden is a lousy guy and an idiot, that is probably quite true.

I think the way we found out he is a lousy guy and an idiot is fairly questionable.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think on Gruden and the comments he made in the emails Booger McFarland clearly explained that aspect when he said "You can't put slogans like stop hate on the back of helmets and have a guy leading these men that made statements like the ones Gruden made in the emails."

This is why when the story came out on Friday I thought "Well, that's it then Gruden will be the first coach fired this season."

I felt the same way as McFarland, you can't make the statements Gruden did and work with and lead men while the league is at the very least pretending to be against this kind of behavior.

There was just one course of action, fire Gruden. However, the NFL was not taking steps to fire him and neither were Davis and the Raiders. In fact Gruden resigned. It does not appear that Davis asked him to and according to the story the NFL had shelved the matter until yesterday.

The NFL got Gruden by leaking the emails. So, they used a way to get rid of him that involved no official action at all and now they can all talk about how horrible Gruden is while "protecting the shield."

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Innocent until proven guilty and all that; but I would imagine that there are communications on the topic of Colin Kaepernick and the social justice movement that many if not all NFL owners will move to keep quiet.

With regards to the owners the Golden Rule applies: Whoever has the gold makes the rules.


- Walter.

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There’s this famous story from the 1987 players strike, in which then Cowboys president Tex Schramm encapsulated the situation facing NFLPA chief Gene Upshaw, who himself was once a Hall of Fame player during a dynastic Raiders era.

“Gene, here’s what you have to understand,” Schramm said offhandedly. “We’re the ranchers and you’re the cattle. And we can always get more cattle.”

Jon Gruden’s Facing More Consequences Than Daniel Snyder Shows Us the NFL’s Priorities

 

[Walter Kittel]

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There’s this famous story from the 1987 players strike, in which then Cowboys president Tex Schramm encapsulated the situation facing NFLPA chief Gene Upshaw, who himself was once a Hall of Fame player during a dynastic Raiders era.

“Gene, here’s what you have to understand,” Schramm said offhandedly. “We’re the ranchers and you’re the cattle. And we can always get more cattle.”

Jon Gruden’s Facing More Consequences Than Daniel Snyder Shows Us the NFL’s Priorities

That sounds just about right, based on recollections from reading North Dallas Forty.

While that is a crude and hard appraisal of the management / labor relationship in all professional sports, there are always new players coming up from the college system. Players are essentially a renewable resource. (The same holds true for coaches and assistants to a lesser degree.)

- Walter.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

The story seems to be Gruden was emailing from a personal email to a Redskins employee who I assume was being contacted through a Redskins email address as this is how the NFL got hold of these emails.

You can pretty much stop right here. If Gruden sent emails to an official Redskins email address, then he is culpable, stupid, and whatever other adjective you want to apply. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Since Grudin retired, does he forfeit any remaining money on his contract?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Since Grudin retired, does he forfeit any remaining money on his contract?

He didn't retire, he resigned and Davis accepted his resignation which means Gruden forfeits the remaining six years of his contract. What we don't know if he gets paid his salary for this entire season which is year four of the ten year contract. I'm assuming that he does, and they chalk it up to his severance pay.

 

[JohnRice]

When people show you who they are, believe them.

People don't make racist, homophobic, misogynist comments/jokes unless that's who they are.

There keep being these "Oh that was years ago" or it's just "guy talk" and so on. It's easy to want to give a bit of a pass, but when I think about it, I realize that even at my most angry, those types of comments never even enter my mind.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I was talking to my brother yesterday and I realized that I've been a Raiders fan for at least 55 years. Al Davis was the AFL Commissioner after coaching the Raiders in 1965. That 1966 season had Tom Flores as starting QB and they just moved into the brand new Oakland-Alameda Coliseum. It was a beautiful stadium back then with a lovely view of the mountains. Anyhow, back then like a lot of kids, I rooted for two teams. One in the NFL and the other in the AFL. We had no idea that a merger was on the horizon. There was no ESPN or sports radio shows talking about that kind of stuff. My father was a Packers fan and then became a Jets fan when Joe Willie was drafted. The older league was ground and pound while the new league was throwing the ball all over the field. In rebellion from my old man, I was a Giants fan and they stunk, but the Raiders were up and coming. The Mad Bomber, Daryle Lamonica was still in Buffalo that 1966 season, before he became the starting Raiders QB in 1967. That same season, George Blanda became the backup QB and was the Raiders kicker. My best friend was a Cowboy and Chiefs fan. The merger kind of ruin the rooting for two teams for many people afterwards, but I think most kids maintained their twin fandom into their adulthood. I did anyway.

To this day, I hate the Jets, Cowboys and Chiefs. Back then I kind of liked the Packers because of Vince Lombardi, until they kicked my Raiders ass in the second SB. At least, they beat the Cowboys so I didn't have to hear any crap from my Cowboys loving buddy and also his Chiefs in the first SB.

 

[Jeffrey D]

I was talking to my brother yesterday and I realized that I've been a Raiders fan for at least 55 years. Al Davis was the AFL Commissioner after coaching the Raiders in 1965. That 1966 season had Tom Flores as starting QB and they just moved into the brand new Oakland-Alameda Coliseum. It was a beautiful stadium back then with a lovely view of the mountains. Anyhow, back then like a lot of kids, I rooted for two teams. One in the NFL and the other in the AFL. We had no idea that a merger was on the horizon. There was no ESPN or sports radio shows talking about that kind of stuff. My father was a Packers fan and then became a Jets fan when Joe Willie was drafted. The older league was ground and pound while the new league was throwing the ball all over the field. In rebellion from my old man, I was a Giants fan and they stunk, but the Raiders were up and coming. The Mad Bomber, Daryle Lamonica was still in Buffalo that 1966 season, before he became the starting Raiders QB in 1967. That same season, George Blanda became the backup QB and was the Raiders kicker. My best friend was a Cowboy and Chiefs fan. The merger kind of ruin the rooting for two teams for many people afterwards, but I think most kids maintained their twin fandom into their adulthood. I did anyway.

To this day, I hate the Jets, Cowboys and Chiefs. Back then I kind of liked the Packers because of Vince Lombardi, until they kicked my Raiders ass in the second SB. At least, they beat the Cowboys so I didn't have to hear any crap from my Cowboys loving buddy.

Where do the Raiders go from here? They now need a legitimate GM, right? Is the replacement coach interim? I assume he is.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Where do the Raiders go from here? They now need a legitimate GM, right? Is the replacement coach interim? I assume he is.

It's in Mark Davis's hands which is frightening to say the least. He's far from being like his father was in his prime years.

 

[Jeffrey D]

So you think Davis is in the conversation of atrocious owners, with Brown, Snyder and Ford?

 

[Robert Crawford]

So you think Davis is in the conversation of atrocious owners, with Brown, Snyder and Ford?

Not yet, but he's heading in that direction if he doesn't get these next hires right.

 

[Jeffrey D]

Haslam just recently escaped from this list.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

There is an aspect of this that is sort of horrifying. It is the idea of going from a fairly beloved and popular person to suddenly within only a matter of a couple of days being one of the most hated people in the country.

I think not many people experience this and it must be somewhat mind blowing when you do. I mean one morning Gruden wakes up and he is this popular sports figure that many people love from his coaching and broadcasting career and the next day he is hated and despised and people are turning their backs on him and taking his name down from anywhere it once appeared. Teams are scrubbing their email servers of any interaction with him, taking his name out of their ring of honor, and people that once celebrated him in broadcasting are trashing him and acting as if he is lower than whale poop.

I mean, I get it. When I read his tire lips comment I thought "Yup, no way out of that one." but wow, not often you see this kind of total crash and burn where in hours your fortunes have been totally flipped.

Not that I am trying to drum up sympathy for the guy but he did not kill anybody, he wrote some ignorant emails, which while totally stupid, were not a criminal offense. We have people do far more horrible things daily and they are never punished or subjected to this sort of mass overwhelming blowback. I mean sure, I understand when you have a famous person the thing to do is to make an example of them and totally destroy them in the most vicious fashion with the intent that you make other people not want to make the mistake they did.

That's how things are done in this country but...in some ways the punishment can far exceed the actions that caused the punishment. He should no longer be a coach because a coach is someone that leads his team and men look up to. He no longer qualifies as a leader and someone to look up to so he can't hold that position.

In this case isn't that enough?

 

[Johnny Angell]

In this case isn't that enough?

Yeah, I think so. He’s lost a very lucrative job and is now unemployable in sportscasting. However, if we just let him leave the scene without comment. Nothing is learned and nothing is changed. The lesson learned would be careful what you say or do when leaving a record of it.

That’s not the lesson that should be learned. We need to learn how to be better people and to not accept such attitudes from the people we employ or associate with. Will the owners of the NFL learn that first thing? Well, so far, only an employee has paid the price and the NFL is holding all other information secret.

I’m not optimistic about the final result. From the day the first two sapiens who could gather a few grey cells together met, they probably hated each other. Hate of the “other” is permanently engraved in our dna. We are now going thru a time when many of us are trying to do better, but I think this is a cycle and we’ll return to our true selves.

Jeez, when I started writing, I didn’t expect to end up here.

Edit: You know Gruden could still get a job selling used cars.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

However, if we just let him leave the scene without comment. Nothing is learned and nothing is changed.

Sure, I agree the good can come out of the discussion, at least we hope. Today with social media there is going to be a lot of discussion and comment. Millions of people will comment and add their 2 cents. I was impressed hearing the comments of Raiders players. Particularly Darren Waller who talked about allowing Gruden the grace to change and become a better person and not just throwing him away like so much garbage.

"I want to offer somebody grace and allow them to learn from what they may have done and that's what I'm trying to do right now for coach."

Driving yesterday I listened to sports radio and wow, kind of a mess. This sort of situation really spirals out of control because emotions run so high. It can and does bring out the worst in some people.

 

[Malcolm R]

Gruden seemed publicly supportive of Carl Nassib when he came out earlier this year. Hard to tell if he's changed over the years, or if he's just an actor putting on a show then reverts to his true self when talking to his "buddies".

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Hate of the “other” is permanently engraved in our dna.

I don't actually think this is true but there is according to evolutionary biologists something we do have ingrained and you can visualize it in a set of circles.

Inside the small circle is your family and we are most inclined toward them. Then as you move out through to friends in the next circle you are inclined to trust and care for them. Then you move out into a circle of people you know but not well. Maybe coworkers or people that do work for you, plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, whatever. As you get to the larger circles with people we do not know, have not met, we do make our judgments of them based on appearances. So the more similar they look to how we look the more inclined we are to trust them. If they look different or unusual then we can feel more suspicious of them and this is simply a survival instinct that is built into our animal DNA.

So I would not call it hate because hate is more a learned feeling.

Also in traveling a lot to different parts of the world I have experienced curiosity from people I meet not hate. When I meet people that are different than me and that speak a different language they don't hate me as a first instinct. They are curious. I'm a very open and welcoming person and never approach someone I don't know feeling hate. I am also always curious.

Hate has to be learned as it involves a different level of complex emotions than just instinctual survival mistrust. I do think how a person is raised and experiences life will determine how they interact with others. I was lucky in that my grandparents were always introducing me to people from all over the world as a child so all I learned was it was wonderful to meet different people.

That shaped me as a person and I think if a person has a lot of bad experiences that will shape them as a person.

 

[Johnny Angell]

So I would not call it hate because hate is more a learned feeling.

If it’s true that hate is taught (as the South Pacific song goes) then a hefty portion of each generation is learning it.