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2019-2020 MLB Hot Stove

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Mike Frezon, Nov 5, 2019.

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  1. Jeffrey D

    Jeffrey D Screenwriter

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    MLB Network High Heat host Chris Russo blasted how the Astros handled today’s press conference.
     
  2. Dheiner

    Dheiner Gazoo
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    I hope they get thrown at. Repeatedly. They conspired to steal a World Freaking Series! And cheated their Union Brothers! Screw 'em!

    Cheating cheaters!
     
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  3. David_B_K

    David_B_K Advanced Member

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    As a long-time Astros fan, I think they have brought dishonor on themselves and the city of Houston and the fans. While a lot of posts from fans of other teams on this and other boards display anger about the Astros, it is also hard on the fans of the Astros like me who also feel cheated by the organization. I don't care whether MLB vacates the 2017 title. IMO it's a tainted title now and I don't care one way or the other what happens to it. Until the Astros win a World Series honestly, IMO they don't have a title. I was bummed that they didn't win the 2019 Series, but now I think it's just as well that they didn't.

    MLB probably has not handed down any more punishment for the Astros* because to do more will destroy the franchise. I've seen people suggest they be banned from post season for X number of years, forfeit X games, etc. Why would they even take the field under those conditions? There is a point where MLB could go too far and destroy the franchise's ability to make money for the rest of MLB.

    As for the press conference, that does not concern me. There was no way it could make anything better. As to the remarks by Altuve and Bregman, José does not speak very good English. When I've seen him in post-game interviews, he just says the usual baseball jargon ("it was a team effort, I just want to help the team", etc) and nothing more. Bregman is some kind of deadpan would be comedian I guess. In his post game interviews, he projects complete ennui. He comes off like he's being insulted by being asked questions. Again, I think he thinks it is funny to answer questions with no expression or emphasis whatsoever. It's his schtick. They probably should not have bothered with the press conference. Unless they committed ritual seppuku on camera, I don't think the angry fans of other teams would be satisfied.

    I feel like I do not have a team to root for now. For me, sports is local. When one is lucky enough to live in a city with major league franchises, it is part of one's identity as a citizen to get behind the local teams. I am not going to switch to a new team. However, I still see people wearing Astros gear around town, so I am sure a lot of fans do not share my disdain for the team. I watch almost every Astros game every year. This year I should have time to catch up on my Blu-ray collection.

    *I also don't think anything will happen to the Red Sox. I think it is likely that Alex Cora had a similar operation in place there, but I think that investigation will die.
     
  4. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    To me, I will forever be bitter about 2017 as a Yankee fan. That Yankee team was special. They were not supposed to go that far that year. But the emergence of Judge and the great moments from players like Sanchez and Greg Bird and others made them a team that just seemed to have a Cinderella Destiny quality to them like the 1996 Yankee team that had ended the 18 year drought had. This was the team that would represent the ceremonial passing of the baton from the Core Four era to a new era in Yankee history (with Sabathia, Gardner and David Robertson providing the links to the last Core Four title). Houston took that from us with their cheating. The Astros were a totally different team at Yankee Stadium compared to the Astrodome and it showed big time. And because of what happened, we lost Joe Girardi as our manager and guys like Greg Bird, David Robertson, Todd Frazier, Starlin Castro and Didi Gregorius lost their chance to play in a World Series that year (they are all gone now from the team). Perhaps a Yankee team that wins in 2017 not only doesn't have to fire their manager, but maybe they also don't feel a need to get Stanton?

    I do not feel the same way about 2019 because clearly, the Yankees got outplayed in that Series IMO though if it turns out Altuve knew what was coming, that would change how I feel. I'll keep an open mind about 2019 and for now not say boo, but 2017.....that will always hurt.
     
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  5. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Jeffrey D likes this.
  6. Jeffrey D

    Jeffrey D Screenwriter

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    I think it’s safe to say the Astros will be hated by most of the other teams and fans for this year, and the foreseeable future. Whether the players like it or not, they will be booed all year long away from Houston.
     
  7. Message #127 of 166 Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    MartinP.

    MartinP. Screenwriter

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    Who manages the AL team in the All-Star game...in Los Angeles?
    I'm sure the Astro representatives will have a lovely time in Chavez Ravine.
    _______

    When someone says, in essence, I don't think our cheating influenced the game, they have no remorse.
    (It is NOW, by the way.)
    _______

    The Astros’ cheating derailed my career. So I’m suing.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-im-suing-the-houston-astros-over-their-cheating/2020/02/13/c15bef00-4e9f-11ea-bf44-f5043eb3918a_story.html
    _______

    Pantone 294 is a group, now an organization, that plans away games in other cities for Dodger fans. This year, on April 3rd, they have organized a trip to Angel Stadium in Anaheim, where the Angels will be playing the Astros. All the tickets they have for the event are sold out. The mission: "Join us for the Angels Home Opener against the Astros. Lets go and support the team that's playing the game we all know and love the right way!"

    They are selling special t-shirts and flags for the occasion. Each order comes with a mystery gift! Hmmm. Here's the shirt:
    [​IMG]
    https://pantone294.com/products/angels-vs-astros-friday-april-3-2020?variant=31443348258850

    They are called Pantone 294 as that's the number of the official Dodger blue color paint.
    _______

    As a Dodger fan that would've liked the WS title vacated, I knew that would never happen. At the least I wanted an official asterisk in the record books. I also think something that affected the players on the team was warranted, like giving up their bonuses to charity or something. And this is why, from yesterday:

    When asked about the Yankees and Dodgers -- the two teams the Astros beat to win the American League pennant and the World Series in 2017 -- the players weren’t as sympathetic to the assertions they had to cheat to win those series. The Astros are standing by their accomplishments in the midst of a swarm of doubt.
     
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  8. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Well, the Astros didn't help their cause today by the latest comments from Correa and Baker. Talk about digging your hole deeper and deeper.

    I actually feel sorry for Astros fans as they're collateral damage in all this as they didn't ask for all this crap.
     
  9. MartinP.

    MartinP. Screenwriter

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    During an interview yesterday on ESPN, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred weighed in on the Astros' cheating operation and said MLB considered stripping the club of its 2017 World Series title ahead of releasing its findings.

    "I am a believer in the idea that precedent happens and when you deviated from that, you have to have a very good reason," he said. "The report gave people a transparent account of what went on. The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back, seems like a futile act.

    Dodgers third baseman Justin Turner is frustrated with MLB commissioner Rob Manfred following his recent comments on the Astros' sign-stealing scandal.

    "The reason every guy's in this room, the reason every guy is working out all offseason, and showing up to camp early and putting in all the time and effort is specifically for that trophy, which, by the way, is called the commissioner's trophy," Turner told reporters Monday.

    "So for him to devalue it the way he did yesterday just tells me how out of touch he is with the players in this game. At this point the only thing devaluing that trophy is that it says 'commissioner' on it."

    Turner hoped to move on from the cheating saga by staying focused on the new season ahead. But Manfred's comment on Sunday that it would be "futile" for MLB to force the Astros to forfeit their World Series trophy—which he called "a piece of metal"—set him off again.

    Turner said he does not want the 2017 championship to be awarded to the Dodgers. However, he doesn't think the Astros should continue to celebrate the title either.

    "We understand how difficult it is to win a World Series," Turner said, per The Athletic. "It's hard. It's really hard. It's something that you have to earn. And obviously, as the report showed, as all these guys from their club over there are coming back and apologizing and trying to make amends for it, it's pretty evident to me that it wasn't earned.

    "And it's not something where a banner should be hung in their stadium, a trophy should be put up wherever their trophies go. They shouldn't have rings. Sorry. A World Series championship is earned. It defines people's careers."


    Parts of an article from:
    https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/17/justin-turner-upset-rob-manfred-world-series-trophy-astros-cheating
     
  10. Message #130 of 166 Feb 17, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
    Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    If Houston had any class (doubtful), they'd remove any references to the 2017 WS from their ballpark. Pretty sad when a team is so loaded with scumbags you have to grant immunity to get anyone to tell the truth. No moral fiber at all down there.

    And if the Commissioner isn't willing to take action, I hope he's not going to suspend and fine players from other teams when they take justice into their own hands. He said there will be zero tolerance for any retribution, but I don't think he can have it both ways.
     
  11. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    Maybe after one or two Astros suffer career ending injuries, the bloodlust will be sated. Maybe.

    I still remember what happened to Astros' shortstop Dickie Thon back in '84. It wasn't pretty. While it didn't end his career it did degrade his eyesight and his potential as a ball player.

    - Walter.
     
  12. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Of course, it doesn't have to be that way. But since they're apparently not that remorseful and the league office won't do much to rectify things and even downplay the seriousness of it all, well, they're just begging for players to take matters into their own hands...

    _Man_
     
  13. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    Batters are injured accidentally. If you begin deliberately targeting batters then the probability of injury increases. That is pretty basic math. As far as remorse goes, we don't know what the players have been told in private in terms of how to handle the controversy, and I just checked Amazon and couldn't find a "remorseometer." If the league office is not taking sufficient (in the eyes of the other teams and their fans) action, then that is an issue that needs to be addressed with the league office.

    Boo the 'stros. Boycott the products they endorse. Shame them on social media. Sell and wear Tee-shirts that mock them and call them out. All fine and dandy. But any action that could cause the players physical harm is crossing a line, and any club or individual who participates in that sort of action has lost any moral high ground that they might have claimed.

    - Walter.
     
  14. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    I'm against intentionally hitting batters as I think it's a cowardly act. It's no longer 1968, when my favorite all-time player would take such justice in his hands. There shouldn't be Bob Gibson's doing such things today. It's not right and I won't condone it.

    As to MLB and the Astros organization, I think both have been surprise by the major blow back from not only other MLB players, but fans of other teams. I think they figured the Dodgers and Yankees would be upset, However, the negative and very vocal reaction is coming from everywhere. They didn't expect that and if the Manfred had a "do over" knowing what he knows today, I think the punishment would have been more severe. First off, they should have taken away their International Free Agent money for those two years. Secondly, if he wasn't going to vacate that 2017 title, he could've placed an asterisk by it so people 50-60 years from now, when we're all gone, people will never forget what the Astros organization did that season. Personally, after knowing how much Crane is involved in the day to day operations of his team, he should have been suspended him too. After reading numerous articles about the Astros organization and how it was run, there is little doubt he knew something was up despite being vindicated by this Manfred report. I think MLB tried to deal with this situation, but also tried to sweep some of it under the rug.

    There is no doubt that the CBA will contain language to deal with players involved in future such scandals. I think the majority of players will demand it from their Players Association. No way, players get away "scot free" next time. MLB will ask for it too because right now the integrity of the sport is in question by many people.
     
  15. Jeffrey D

    Jeffrey D Screenwriter

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    I think we can agree that the first pitch thrown at one of the really disliked Astros that comes remotely close to their body will be met with
    overreaction from the home plate ump and
    Torre, which will make everyone look even worse.
     
  16. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    First off, Manfred is doing the Astros a favor because now pitchers might not be able to throw inside to Astro batters which is BS because now the pitchers can't control the inside of the plate. Secondly, Torre has been kicked upstairs so he won't be handling out any punishments as former pitcher Chris Young is now task with that duty. Torre's next birthday is his 80th in July.
     
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  17. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Nobody here is saying they want to see players thrown at or deliberately, physically assaulted.

    Some of us are merely pointing out that's much more likely to happen because of how this is turning out. Just the reality of things regardless of what the more civil amongst us believe to be right or wrong...

    OTOH, I have seen a comment or two that seem to think justice was actually served, which most of us don't agree...

    _Man_
     
  18. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    I feel that throwing at them this season is wasted energy. What point is it going to make?

    Seems to me that they all knew this was going on already 3 years ago right into last season.
    If they didn’t throw at them then it serves no purpose Yo do it now.
     
  19. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    When the Yankees position players like Judge report to camp, they will speak their mind about that situation. As a group they will then collectively turned the page and concentrate on their 2020 goal which is to win a WS. It's over with and it's time to move forward as a team.
     
  20. Jeffrey D

    Jeffrey D Screenwriter

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    Thanks. I didn’t know Torre isn’t involved with on-field discipline any longer (I didn’t love some of the punishments that he did hand down to players).
     

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