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2004 Oscars - How will the Academy handle The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions? (1 Viewer)

Matthew_Millheiser

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I think possibly what you meant to say is, "if 'best story' was used as a standard, and by 'best story,' I mean, 'whatever I think is the best story...'"
Fair enough. :) I try not to use things like "IMHO" because I think that's inherent in the comment. (Of course it's my opinion!) I still liked A Beautiful Mind quite a bit, I just think Fellowship was better.

All IMHO of course :D

As far as ROTK winning Best Picture as it is a "culmination" of the entire story and will be awarded as such... well, I just don't buy it and I'll leave it at that.
 

Brian Lawrence

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The technical awards are a total fucking joke anyhow. We are at a time where Big visual effects films are coming out every other week and all of them have pumped up sound-mixes. Yet, year after year the Oscars pull some stupid move and only nominate 2 or 3 films in these categories, as if they could not find a full five films worthy of nominating for best Sound or Best Visual Effects ??

The worst case being when Robo Cop was the only film nominated for Sound FX editing in 1987, I guess Evil Dead II, Lethal Weapon, Living Daylights, Predator, Running Man, Innerspace, & Empire of the Sun, where all unworthy of a Sound FX nomination. :rolleyes
 

Yee-Ming

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And wasn't there a year when Oscar didn't even bother to nominate and vote, and just gave Best Effects by default to an Arnie movie? Can't remember exactly which, I think it was either T2 or Total Recall. Either one no doubt a worthy winner, but it seemed a bit ridiculous for them to not even go through the process.
 

Seth Paxton

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Yee-Ming made my point as well as I could.

And sorry Vickie, I had a rant done up on how SiL/SPR is hardly a travesty since SiL did much better with the acting and writing awards and that SiL and SPR were actually neck and neck (SiL had more Oscar noms as well). I went on to ramble against the silly anti-Oscar crap and the idea that ROTK isn't a front-runner for Oscar noms/wins at this point. But then I figured no one needed to hear it.

Of course I changed my mind today enough to put this little synopsis up. ;)


As far as ROTK winning Best Picture as it is a "culmination" of the entire story and will be awarded as such... well, I just don't buy it and I'll leave it at that.
The reason this is being said is because so many Oscar pundits were picking up this vibe in Hollywood last year. Maybe that will change but as of now there is some buzz that typical of Academy "rewarding" tradition that TTT was passed over a bit because ROTK was seen as the real film to recognize.

As always that idea depends as much on the competition as it does ROTK itself, and it does depend on ROTK being good enough itself.

Anyway, ROTK will be a main contender for effects, sound, etc. since the last two films were (and both won Oscars in these areas). Since ROTK has a big advantage over Matrix 2-3 by being a much more serious Best Pix contender I think it hurts the chances for M2-3 to win. If ROTK is again denied I would see those technical awards as a way to reward the film which might be part of the reasoning behind the TTT wins. Of course a strong case can be made that both FOTR and TTT simply earned the technical wins they got.

With Matrix being another recent technical winner though it makes the Oscars in those areas more interesting.

I liked Reloaded and thought the FX were effective for the film, but the weren't as good as what I saw in TTT (like Gollum).
 

Yee-Ming

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Miramax spends money on campaigns
I didn't mean to suggest that Miramax could buy votes outright, just that they campaigned very hard and it seems to have left a bad taste in some voters' mouths.

I recall that I read a New York Times article (or maybe some other publication) to that effect, saying that although Chicago did win a pile of awards, the numbers were less than might otherwise be expected, e.g. Nicole Kidman edging out Renee Zellweger -- although that might in fact be on merit? Haven't seen either, can't comment, although I also wonder if it's to make up for Nicole missing out previously (when she really should have been nominated for The Others rather than Moulin Rouge).

All right, leaving aside SIL v. SPR, do any other examples come to mind where Weinstein's "interference" created an unexpected winner?
 

Lou Sytsma

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Let me refine my definition of best. ROTK will be the most emotionally engaging movie of the three and probably any other movie this year for that matter.

That and the fact that the other 2 installments were nominated makes ROTK the one to beat.
 

Lew Crippen

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For me, it is pretty hard to determine that any movie would even be worthy of nomination before I have seen the film. Much less how well it will stack up against other films, yet to be seen or nominated.

Even if Return of the King is as grand as everyone expects, how can we know that there will not be other films even more deserving?

Personally, I felt that The Two Towers should not have received a best picture award, as it suffers too much from ‘second act’ syndrome. Viewed as a stand-alone film, it is a movie with no real beginning and no real end. For viewers with no background, it would have been an extremely confusing film to see the first time.
 

Chad R

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Again, that logic could have been applied to 'Godfather 3' but all that bought it was a nomination, not a win. Granted, Godfather 3 was pretty bad compared to the others--but even if it was good it had little chance of winning that year.
 

Tom Ryan

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Chad, except if Godfather 3 had been only half as bad as it was, it probably would've won. The problem with that movie was that it fell about several hundred miles below its predecessors in terms of quality...it's a testament to the strength of the first two films that the third received any kind of nomination at all. The situation with LOTR is different.

ROTK is by most accounts expected to be the best of a series that thus far has been nominated for best picture every time. I can personally vouch for the story aspects of it; they'll be better than anything that's come before. Everyone's talking about what an emotional high this film will be. Also, there's been a big buzz ever since even before FOTR received any nominations that the Academy would probably wait until ROTK to truly reward this trilogy/series/whatever. By all accounts, ROTK has by far the best chance of actually winning best picture and other major awards. It's true that it's no sure thing, but right now it's looking like an early favorite.
 

JustinCleveland

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Matrix will get nods for effects. That is all. It won't even matter, since I doubt they will win. I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't award-winning by any stretch.

That having been said, it would be the same as any other movies... they are two distinct entities (granted not in story) but they are two separate movies. They will be handled the same as any two autonomous films.
 

Lew Crippen

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Chad, except if Godfather 3 had been only half as bad as it was, it probably would've won.
Dances with Wolves was the winner that year. I’d agree that The Godfather, Part III would have been better than the winner had it only been half as bad—but since we are involving hindsight, another nominated, non-winner that year was Scorsese’s Goodfellas.
 

Kachi Khatri

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I expect the Academy to have a major migraine in the technical categories (listed below) this year. :D

Cinematography
Film Editing
Sound
Sound Editing
Visual Effects
Makeup

In 1991, T2 which was nominated on all above and took the latter 4 of the awards.

But this year there may be no sweep with X2, Matrix movies, Hulk, T3, ROTK, etc. This should put enough spin on who gets what in the end.

2003 should be major year for box-office (may easily break records) when you consider all the mega-movies in release especially the sequals.

But I like many others think ROTK may clinch the Best Picture.
 

Morgan Jolley

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Will that sort of restriction apply to Revolutions' special effects?
It depends. Reloaded/Revolutions were made during the same filming project, just like LotR was. That means that if one wins, it'd be pointless to nominate the other.

But The Matrix, Reloaded, and Revolutions all use different levels of technology, so awarding The Matrix AND Reloaded or Revolutions would not be the same as the FotR/TTT makeup nomination thing.
 

Dan Rudolph

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As for Matrix...wasn't TTT ineligible for a makeup nomination because it was a "continuation" of the first film? Will that sort of restriction apply to Revolutions' special effects?
I think that's only because they were using the same make-up designs. IIRC, Wormtongue was the only new one. Since Revolutions and Reloaded will have different effects shots, I think they'll both be eligible, even if they are the same kind of shots.

Revolutions may very well be ineligible for stuff like score, art direction and costuming though.
 

Morgan Jolley

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Revolutions may very well be ineligible for stuff like score, art direction and costuming though.
Why? The reason TTT didn't get nominated for makeup/costumes is because the makeup/costumes were pretty much the same work as what went into the first film, while other things (like Score, Sound, Sound Design, etc.) were brand new and had to be redone for TTT.

For Revolutions, the costumes, makeup, and some other things might still be considered the same work that was in Reloaded, but so long as only one of the two films gets nominated (either one could be) then I don't think it will make a difference, since certain nominations would pretty much work with either film (maybe they'll nominated the work done in both movies as one entry?).
 

Yee-Ming

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Revolutions may very well be ineligible for stuff like score, art direction and costuming though.
Is the issue of eligibility tied to use in a prior movie, or in prior movie that was eligible in an earlier year? My recollection of the way this was worded regarding disqualifying music scores in sequels using a substantial amount of music from earlier movies was because they'd already been considered in earlier years.

If so, Revolutions will not have that problem since it is coming out in the same year as Reloaded. ROTK on the other hand will, since FOTR and TTT have already "had their shot" at the Oscars.

IIRC, nominations are really up to the studio to push, so whilst one may worry about Reloaded and Revolutions "diluting the vote", no doubt Warner Bros will consider which has a better chance in each particular category, and only nominate one for that category.
 

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