2003-2004 NFL Season (Playoffs and coaching moves) (1 Viewer)

[Lew Crippen]

Here is an early story about Carter.

So far no one is talking: not Jones, not Parcells and not any of the players. I'm sure that there will be plenty of talk on the afternoon radio shows and in the Dallas and Fort Worth papers tommorrow.

 

[Patrick Sun]

More scuttlebutt: the drug test was administered by the Cowboys, and that might impact the union's involvement into this matter of the drug testing policy of the league. Anyhow, it seems like Jones and the Tuna didn't want Carter around anyway (hence the quick Drew Hinson signing), and Carter gave them the ammo to use to get rid of him.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Chuck I will disagree on Jerry Porter

He had a break out year in 2002, and was slowed a lot last season because of a hernia and a pulled groine. If he can stay healthy this year, I see him being a big possession receiver, especially in Norv Turner's offense. He's got a pretty good yards per reception average. Plus, he's been working third these past couple of seasons, and still put up good numbers in 2002. Is he the next Tim Brown? No, but guys like that don't come along everyday.

I predict that if he is healthy, he'll be Oakland's top statistical receiver this season and maybe finish with between 80-90 receptions and 1100 yards or more.

I could be wrong but so could anyone making predictions.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Its official, Brown released by Raiders

 

[Chris]

Ricky Williams now saying he may consider returning in '05.. to play with the Raiders.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1852334

What a load of crap. Here's hoping they have to play in Miami if this happens.

 

[Andrew_Sch]

I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier, but I think it would behoove the Ravens to go after Tim Brown. We've got the cap room, and with the possible exception of Kevin Johnson, our receiving corps can't get much worse. Plus, he would surely be a positive influence on young, developing players like Travis Taylor (at least, I hope he's still developing) and Devard Darling, even if he didn't have much impact on the field.

 

[Chris]

Tim Brown is not the player he used to be. But he understands the game and could be a very positive force on players. He has been trouble free, and a positive role model within his community. He is what more NFL players wish they were: received warmly by fans, thought of well by the community, no legal troubles, and a very smart mind for the game.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier, but I think it would behoove the Ravens to go after Tim Brown. We've got the cap room, and with the possible
exception of Kevin Johnson, our receiving corps can't get much worse. Plus, he would surely be a positive influence on young, developing players like Travis
Taylor (at least, I hope he's still developing) and Devard Darling, even if he didn't have much impact on the field.

Andrew, that's really a good idea.

Chris, I wasn't surprised to hear this about Ricky Williams, but there is a couple of things you need to remember.

If Williams were to come back in 2005, his contract would still be owned by Miami, so if he were going to play for Oakland, Miami would have either had to trade him there, or release him out right.
Plus, if Williams comes back, he will be facing a 4 game suspention for substance abuse, and that would make him less attractive to any team.
I'm not surprised to hear that he'd like to play for Oakland, his best seasons were under the guidance of Norv Turner's offense, and plus honestly the number of NFL players that would like to play in Oakland is about a mile long. I'd have to venture that Oakland and Dallas are the 2 teams that most players in the NFL would love to play for at least once, just because many of the current players probably grew up as fans of those teams, they were good around the time most NFL players were growing up, and in the case of the Raiders, they really know how to take care of their veteran players and that's pretty well known throughout the league.
Hell, one thing that I can't say about this whole Tim Brown deal, is that the Raiders weren't fair by him. They told him where he stood with the offense, they didn't wait until the final cut to give him a release, and the split was such that both he and the team agreed that he'd retire a Raider. So, Ricky Williams is just like a lot of NFL players, who would like to wear the silver and black at least once. I don't think it will happen for him though, but I could be wrong.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Tim Brown is not the player he used to be. But he understands the game and could be a very positive force on players. He has been trouble free, and a positive
role model within his community. He is what more NFL players wish they were: received warmly by fans, thought of well by the community, no legal troubles,
and a very smart mind for the game.

Chris, this is very well said indeed. In the past week or so, Oakland has lost 2 of these players in Tim Brown and Rod Woodson, some teams are lucky to have one of these guys that you describe.

See you both in Canton someday I'm sure.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I think Oakland is just cleaning house so they can have room for younger players. Of course, I still wonder why Jerry Rice is still hanging around.

I don't remember Ronnie Lott at all, so it saddens me that I missed out on those great times. But then again, if I had to be accurate, I just started paying attention to football around 1995. Man did I miss out on some great years.

But that's what NFL films are for.

 

[Chris]

Someone on the radio summed up Ricky Williams really well today; that most players who get popped for drugs are contrite, apologize, and ask for league forgiveness, and say they can beat it.

Ricky said "well, between getting stoned daily and making no more money; and making millions a year, I chose to get stoned"



Ah, he needs to do that Nike "I'm not a Role Model" commercial

 

[Lew Crippen]

The Quincy Carter story is all over the area’s morning papers (and last night’s TV news and sports—hey its Dallas, this is not just a sports story, but a news story ).

Bottom line is that Carter had a second drug violation. So far there has been no responsible or confirmed report as to the type of drug.

It appears as though Jerry Jones and Bill Parcells decided that trying to nurse an average (at best) quaterback through all of this was not worth it, and that they would be better served to give the reps to the three remaining quaterbacks.

No one believes that Parcells and Jones would have cut him loose, were he another Troy Aikman—but since he is not, it was time to say so long.

As it is now, the Cowboys have a 40-year old quaterback as the starter. A second year one from a small school and a rookie who has not played football in several years—and neither has ever thrown a pass in a regular season game.

My prediction, Vinne will start the regualr season and will continue unless he is (really bad) or the Cowboys are something like 4 and 5 with no playoff chance. Then we will see Henson.

 

[Shane Martin]

Lew,
The question then is How much of a beating can Vinnie take? I'm sure teams will blitz like a mother just to try to put him out in order to get to Henson or Romo. Hey I would if I was a D-Coordinator.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Exactly right Shane. Much of the discussion is on Vinnie’s lack of mobility—Parcells yesterday said that they were going to now use plays suited to a classic, drop-back, pocket passer. It should be interesting, as (by all accounts) Testaverde still has the arm to make the defense pay, if the blitz can be picked up.

Last year’s offensive line would not have been able to do the job—and Troy Hambrick miss his share of blocks, so we will see what happens.

The trouble of course, is that even if the defense pays the price with a couple of first-down completions, putting a 40-year old on his back a few times, might be enough to knock him out of the game.

The Cowboys have dropped from five to three quarterbacks via by cuts. Here’s hoping that they don’t come down to two by injury.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

A paper out in the Bay Area, I think the S.F. Chronicle suggested Detroit and Arizona, as both have talented young receivers but could use some veteran influence.

I just returned from vacation, so I'm catching up. I cannot see Brown landing in Detroit. The Lions already signed Tai Streets to be the veteran influence for their young receivers, and he is familiar with Mariucci's offense. The Lions will start Charles Rogers and Roy Williams at wide out, with Streets and Hakim as the 3rd and 4th receivers. That would not leave much for Brown.

The only surprising thing about the Quincy Carter release is that Jones agreed to it so readily. Jones drafted him way too high and has always defended that mistake. I didn't think his massive ego would let him admit he made a mistake.

Maybe Quincy Carter can catch up with Ricky Williams and they can share their stashes and enjoy the autumn together.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Talking about Carter as a Cowboy fan, there is no doubt it hurts this season. But living in DC, some of the local talking heads on the radio have already deemed the Cowboys finished. Of course that leaves only the Skins and Eagles in the hunt, as it were

In truth, Carter was never going to be good enough to take the team farther than he did last year without a significant upgrade at several slots. He was not the long term answer. Nor is Vinnie, though clearly he is the best chance to win a few games this year.

Dallas won last year despite it's offense. Teams were no more scared of Carter than Hambrick. Dallas still has the very good defense, and with Jones and George, an upgrade at RB. Add in Keyshawn, whose production should be decent with Parcells, and you are looking at a mediocre, but not awful offense. Which doesn't seem much different than last year. I expected 9-7 with Carter. That move might cost a game or two. But Parcells is full of surprises, and Henson's upside is excellent. So, I can live with a 7-9 or 8-8, if it means they are that much better next year (and with two 1st round picks).

Or is that wishful thinking,
Chuck

 

[Shane Martin]

The only surprising thing about the Quincy Carter release is that Jones agreed to it so readily.

Winning cures alot of issues.

A possibility for Tim Brown has always been Dallas. They are thin at WR anyway. I heard that Tampa was too but there is a tiff between Gruden and Brown.

Edit: Their defense should be alot better this year. Personally I'm pretty glad they jettisoned Carter. He was done this year anyway regardless.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Ok, this is for the Cowboys fans on here regarding Quincy Carter.

From what I heard on ESPN yesterday, this drug test might have actually been administered by the Cowboys organization itself, and not by the NFL which is against league rules. All drug tests have to be done by the league itself, to ensure continuity, and for other reasons at least that was the explanation on sportscenter.

So, what are they saying locally? Are they saying it was a league sponsored test, or a team sponsored test? I'm just curious because it was sort of a muddled issue last night, with Mortonson saying it could've been either.

If it was a team sponsored test, then I'd expect the union to file a grievance over it, though I'm not sure what they'll get if they were to win such a case.

Oh and Scott, maybe its just me but if I were a Lions fan, and the choice was to have Ty Streets and Az Hakim as my veteran influence on young receivers, or to have Tim Brown come in and be such an influence, I'd take Brown every single time. Plus, its not like he'd be totally unfamiliar with the West Coast Offense Mariucci runs, he did run a version of it for six years himself. I'm not saying that means they're in the hunt.

In reality though, maybe Chris Mortonson was right on Sportscenter last night when he said that he didn't think there was any kind of a market out there for Brown. He'd be at best a third WR on a team and that team would have to be thin at WR for that to happen, and plus being 38 years old he doesn't play special teams anymore which is what you want your third and forth receivers to do, so it is possible his career is over and he just doesn't know it yet.

On Ricky, I read an article from the AP which referenced that story on SI.com and Ricky wants to play for the Raiders, because he feels that his personality would fit right in, especially embraced by the fans.

Um, Ricky you're too weird even for the most painted up fan in the stands. Having said that, it really wouldn't shock me if they traded for his rights. Since he filed retirement papers, he can not make a come back this season without a penalty, and like I said earlier he'll face a 4 game ban if he attempts one next year.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Oh and Scott, maybe its just me but if I were a Lions fan, and the choice was to have Ty Streets and Az Hakim as my veteran influence on young receivers, or to have Tim Brown come in and be such an influence, I'd take Brown every single time.

Maybe a couple of years ago I would have agreed with you, Casey. However, the Tim Brown I saw last year appeared slow and struggled to get open. Quality 38 year old receivers not named Jerry Rice are more rare than an unopened bag of Doritos in Ricky Williams' house. The Lions have been filling their roster the past few years with players too old to play anymore -- it's time to go with youth and speed in Detroit. Streets is only 27 years old, so it's not like he is some ancient relict on his last legs. Hakim would be gone in a heartbeat if his salary cap hit wouldn't be so bad, but the Lions will have to hang onto him and live with that free agent mistake.

Tim Brown had a great career in Oakland/LA, but he's no better than a fourth receiver for a team, unless it is absolutely desparate for a receiver (Baltimore or San Diego, anyone?).

 

[Lew Crippen]

So, what are they saying locally? Are they saying it was a league sponsored test, or a team sponsored test?

There was some early speculation here also, that this might have been a test administered by the Cowboys.

As it turns out, that is not correct. Quincy was in the league drug program (this happens when a player fails the first test). At this point, not even the player’s team is informed by the league (this does not mean that the Cowboys did not know—Carter could have told then—or it could have been in his contract or any number of ways they might have known).

In any case, aside from treatment programs and the like, the main penalty is that those in the program can get tested up to ten times a month—or as much as once every three days). This is done by the league, not the club—a second failure causes the player to be docked four weeks pay (goes to the league), but the player can still play. The third failure results in a four game suspension. In theory, the first time the club knows anything.

Beneath everything Jones and Parcells have said, it is pretty easy to understand that they knew that there was some kind of problem, because of the many references to Carter’s personal problems.

I did not, BTW start yesterday knowing this much about the details of the league’s drug policy.

Clubs are prohibited from administering drug tests by the collective bargaining agreement. The only tests they can give relate to health and physical fitness.