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2003-2004 NBA Season

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Patrick Sun, Oct 24, 2003.

  1. BrandonM

    BrandonM Stunt Coordinator

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    Artest is inferior to Kobe in FG%, 3pt%, FT%, turnovers, rebounds, assists, and points per game. That's not even mentioning aspects of the game that stats do not measure, such as clutch shooting. So, how exactly is he as good an all-around player as anyone in the NBA? The only thing Artest has on Kobe is that he is able to play more consistent defense, but Kobe has proven to be one of the top defensive players in the league when he is on. Look no further than his suffocating defensive performance on McGrady a few weeks ago. Garnett also deserves to be placed above Artest on the all-around player list.
     
  2. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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  3. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    I don't think Artest is better, I think he is among those top players who can give a team ANYTHING it needs when they need it. Just the fact that Kobe takes some nights off speaks to that, Ron doesn't and that's not easy. KG on the other hand, I agree.

    Kobe is a much better offensive player, but Ron is a much better defensive player by most experts opinion that I hear and from what I see. I don't hear Kobe even mentioned first in comparison to Ron, but rather Bruce Bowen (which I think is deserved).

     
  4. Min Kim

    Min Kim Auditioning

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    Seth, I won't say the Lakers are better or worse than the Pacers. BUT...

    41.5min. - 45.1fg% - 38.3 3pt.% - 84%FT - 6.9 rebounds
    5.9 assists - 2.2 stls - 0.8 blcks

    Kobe's numbers last year. He would have similar numbers this year, if it weren't for the fact that he now has 2 more hall/famers to share the ball with. Ron Artest isn't nearly the player that Kobe is. And I've NEVER seen Kobe take a night off.
     
  5. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    After watching the last few weeks, it definitely appears that either the Pacers or Pistons have a good chance against the West. Some of the better teams in the West are fading (and my Mavs in particular, fading fast).

    The T-Wolves seem to be on course to repeat their post-season play of years past—though I think that they still ought to rebound and play at mid-season form. As good as the Kings ought to be, they seem to be really suffering from injuries—both those of right now (such as Miller) and those recovering (Webber). The Spurs don’t really seem to be able to play consistently and the Lakers with all their talent, don’t play hard every night—of course one can argue that they have another gear that they can use in the playoffs.

    Last night really demonstrated to me that for all their problems with defense, the worst thing that can happen to the Kings is to wind up in a first-round match-up against the Mavs. No one plays ‘the first one to 120 wins’ better than Dallas and the since the Kings love that game too, I think that they could get knocked out yet again by Dallas. But even here, no one really thinks that the Mavs have a chance against the Lakers and their ilk.

    In the end, it does look like the Lakers in the West, although I’m going to pull for the T-Wolves after Dallas gets knocked out.

    Not disagreeing with Seth’s cogent arguments as to the Lakers’ weaknesses, I do think that they can take the Pacers or Pistons in a seven game series.

    And just as a point of information, since I don’t visit the sties mentioned in some earlier posts—why would the HTF have more reasoned discussion on the NBA than sites that ought to draw the hard-core fans?

    Very curious.
     
  6. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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  7. Jan H

    Jan H Cinematographer

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    I agree with Casey on this point. I've been to a few Lakers sites, and also the Spurs and Kings, and it's 'F*** Kobe' this and 'Shaq sux' that, and on and on. There are relatively few knowledgeable posters on these sites, from my experiences there. I'm a Laker fan, but even Laker sites are profane, boring and witless. Here, you can share opinions and statistics with a more sophisticated group who rarely resorts to blind homerism.
     
  8. Hunter P

    Hunter P Screenwriter

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    OK, first of all, I want to inform the jury that I did qualify at the time that my 2-1 prediction for the Texas three step was a ranting of a fan and not based on fact. The prediction was also made before knowing Miller injury was still bothering him. But damn, I thought still would have thought they could put up more of a fight than they did. This team needs a sports psychologist.

    The main difference between the Kings and other championship hopefuls is that the Kings are still riddled with injuries. Yeah, they are definitely not the same team anymore. The things they did among the best in the league are the things that are failing them currently. They are poor in FT's, 3PT shooting, turnovers, and assists. Their defense might have not been good but at least they could shut down teams in crunch time. People focused on their point allowed and FG% allowed but they failed to recognize that the Kings used to be #1 in point differential until this funk. They can no longer string together a significant run. Hell, sometimes it seems as if they can't get two stops on defense in a row. Completely different team.

    My only hope at this point is that they go into the playoffs with their full roster. Then let the chips fall where they may.

    You cannot tell the difference between your post and Joe's? I don't care for which team you guys are fans. Look back at all of my posts. I would like to hope that I, a Kings fan, always viewed the Lakers with respect. Excuse me for not buying into the "Lakers rule, everyone else sucks" mentality. I don't see the Celtics in the playoffs this year so why does winning the championship X amount of times matter this season?

    If anyone, including myself, is gonna put themselves out there then they better be prepared for the criticism.
     
  9. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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    Indiana, Detroit, Memphis, Denver, Minnesota, and San Antonio all with big wins tonight.

    In the well duh catagory the Nets clinched the Atlantic division...gee ya think?

    Lakers down by 4 at the half to Seattle...how did I miss this game on the schedule. I think it was b/c everyone was talking about us playing the Spurs and stuff up soon.
     
  10. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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    Lakers will win game number 11 in a row tonight up by double digits with under 3 minutes to go.

    I'll say this much, L.A. is the last team any nonLaker fan wants to see on a roll going in to the playoffs. What I mean is that if the Spurs are hot that won't worry a Kings fan as much if the Lakers are hot. L.A. is IMO the hardest team to stop when momentum is on their side. I know it was a few years ago, but the Lakers that only lost 1 playoff game are a good example of this. These Laker teams especially if Shaq is feeling motivated are the most troublesome team in the leageue for others to deal with IMO.
     
  11. RossTerry

    RossTerry Guest

    its all between San Antonio and the Lakers

    Sac is struggling, _allas doesnt play defense, not real sure what Minn. will do.
     
  12. Chris Farmer

    Chris Farmer Screenwriter

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    I agree Casey, no team/coach better capitalizes on momentum then Phil Jackson. Best example of that is when, like you said, LA went 15-1 in the playoffs two years ago. Swept the first two rounds, and then faced the Spurs (who, don't forget, finished that season with the NBA's best record if I remember properly) and used that momentum to make the Spurs look like a joke. I hope to hell the Spurs beat LA on Sunday just to stall that momentum some (and maybe make a run for the best WC record also, despite being the four seed they're only 1.5 games out), because the last thing the rest of the NBA wants is to have LA hit the playoffs on a massive win streak.

    And I agree the only team that's likely to stop LA is the Spurs, and even then only in round 2. If LA does get their stride broken some and face the Spurs in round 2, I'd give SA a decent shot. If they don't face off until round 3 though, LA's gonna be a juggernaut. If they haven't lost by round 2, I don't think they will. Sorry Seth, but the Pacers and Pistons won't stand a chance if the Lakers Juggernaut hits the finals rolling.
     
  13. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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    Well, continuing the trend of my agreeing with Chris on things, I've got to say that the team that worries me most is San Antonio. People, I tell you that Bruce Bowen still shows up in my nightmares taunting me. We can't have a repeat of last year if we want any shot at this, that man was on fire for that Lakers series. The fewer games the Lakers play in the playoffs the harder it will be to beat them in the next round. In otherwards if they sweep round 1, they'll be tougher in round 2 than if they played 6 or 7 games in round 1. Reason being not so much that its more game, but that they're having to fight, and they're not really gaining momentum. The longer the Western finals goes, no matter which 2 teams are in it, and it is still so close right now IMO, the better shot the team that comes out of the East has.
     
  14. Min Kim

    Min Kim Auditioning

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    The Spurs? Ehhh... If they actually IMPROVED their lineup during the offseason. But the loss of Speedy Claxton, Stephen Jackson and David Robinson is just too much.
     
  15. Chris Farmer

    Chris Farmer Screenwriter

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    Eh, Jackson was good, but very streaky. I think Hedo was an improvement over him. Better defensive player, nearly as accurate an outside shooter, and more consistent (once he regained his confidence). Robinson is my absolute idol, I've never had enough good things to say about the man, but last season he wasn't a huge factor. Impressive defensively, but offensively, he was a far cry from the center with point guard speed that hung 71 on the Clippers a decade ago. Rasho will never be as good as David was in his prime, but I think Rasho this year is David from last year's equal. Speedy is the one we miss the most. The back-up point guard slot has been disturbingly bare all season, and Charlie Ward certainly didn't fill the void like I hoped he would. Even there though, Pop's implementation of a motion offense (where Duncan is now a high option, but not the only one) has helped with that situation, with even Manu being able to serve as a back-up PG.

    And I agree totally with Casey,. the more games the Lakers have to play in each round the better (for everyone else).
     
  16. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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    Dallas shot 61 percent in their victory over Phoenix tonight. Miami beat the Bulls but Wade suffered an injury of some sort, haven't checked yet.

    Tomorrow has some heavy hitting matchups in terms of post season importance.

    Sacramento at Houston
    Indiana vs. Detroit
    Memphis vs. Minnesota
    San Antonio at L.A. Lakers
    Atlanta vs. New Jersey...hey wait, how'd that get in here?

    Seriously though, 4 big games tomorrow should be fun. Again, I wish I got NBATV.
     
  17. Chris Farmer

    Chris Farmer Screenwriter

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    Tomorrow's game between SA and LA is absolutely huge for both teams. LA has already won the season series with 3 wins, but they're trying to hold onto the best recond in the West and keep their momentum going. The Spurs are trying to gain ground in the standing, get some momentum of their own as well, plus they need a win over LA just to prove they can, even though the first three games were all riddled with heavy injuries to the Spurs and the Lakers had their big four. This is the first time a healthy Lakers and a healthy Spurs have met all season, and is both teams' only chance to get a good look at the others' capabilities before they playoffs.
     
  18. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    Chris,

    While I agree that it's a big game for both teams, I also think it's nearly meaningless. I mean even if one of these teams gets blown out badly, that team would still be one of the favorites to win it all. I sure hope that doesn't happen (at least not to the Lakers [​IMG]), but if it does, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    I heard one of the most ridiculous takes ever yesterday on the radio from those Hardcore sports brothers, who typify Spurs homerism.

    According to them, if the Spurs had been healthy back when they met the Lakers, they'd have won all 3 games, and therefore would currently have the best record in the NBA.

    Huh? Sure, IF the Spurs had won any 3 additional games for whatever reason, AND no other team also did better, that would be true.

    But cmon. The Spurs are not the only team suffering from injuries. If the Lakers had been healthy all season long, I think they'd have a much better record than they do now, and I don't think 3 additional wins would have put the Spurs in first place. Also, who knows, but I seriously doubt that just by being at full strength that the Spurs would have won all 3 of those meetings with the Lakers. As a matter of fact, given that I think the full strength Lakers are the best team in the NBA, I think the outcome would have been the same. We can disagree about that, but that take on the radio was just pathetic.
     
  19. Chris Farmer

    Chris Farmer Screenwriter

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    That's stupid of course, but like you said, it's homerism. That's not exactly isolated to San Antonio. Stupid people are everywhere, as are people who can't see beyond the boundaries they've set for themselves (the worst that I saw was my above story about medical schools). I dunno if the Spurs would have taken all three games had injuries not been an issue. The most likely was the Duncan-less game where Manu dominated, but then again, had Duncan been in there, Ginobilli certainly wouldn't have had the game he did. And having Duncan go down that second time certainly did wonders to kick-start the Spurs offense (they're scoring far more now then they were before), so I'd say they actually benefitted from that second injury overall.

    I still think this game is important because I think the Spurs or Lakers are most likely to win the championship. The Spurs need a win over the Lakers for confidence and to improve their record, the Lakers are getting their only regular season look at a full-strength Spurs team, plus are trying to hold on to the conference lead.
     
  20. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    I agree it's important, I also think it's nearly meaningless. [​IMG]

    The games that really matter are the ones where teams are struggling to get the 8th seed. You can certainly win a championship without home court advantage (the Lakers didn't have home court when they won in 2001), but you can't win if you don't even make the playoffs.
     

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