2001: A Space Odyssey (1 Viewer)

[Coressel]

Hallucinogenic Aroma of Lunation

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Jack, your profile says you work for "herbalife". Would you care to expand upon that??

 

[Sebastian_M]

I watched 2001: A Space Odyessy last night, for the first time completely. First of all let me say that I am a 16 year old male, and the first time I watched this film I was really young and found it boring so I stopped watching it. I have been watching the films of Kubrick chronologically since the release of the new box set and last night 2001 was up.
After the end credits finished and the music kept playing I was still in shock. The majesty of the music and Kubrick's imagery had impacted me profoundly. I feel that the reason for the great absense of dialogue in the film is that it is a visual tale, and that the dialogue is in there to keep one from thinking "What the hell is going on here?" The themes and plot of the film are not totally clear to me, but I do have my own interpretation of the film which shares some of the points brought up in this thread, which I read in its entirity after viewing the film.
The meaning of the Dawn of Man sequence, which is a pretty much shared view here, is the point in time when apes started their evolution into a higher species. The appearance of a monolith to me is the intervention of a more intelligent species in the universe that is giving mankind the kickstart it needs to evolve. The apes begin to use tools and beat out another tribe from the watering hole with them. The Moonwatcher (as he is called here) looks up at the moon and I believe this is the reason that another monolith is buried under the Moon's surface. The monolith on Earth started human evolution and the monolith under the moon will end it. And of course, the throwing of the bone and the transition into a space ship is a brilliant piece of filmaking. The bone being man's first tool, and the spaceship being man's new tool in 2001.
The waltz of the spaceships is another brilliant bit of filmaking. While some say it is long, boring and unnecessary, I think it is rythmic, interesting and beautiful. Kubrick's use of music in this film is excellent. One of the best uses of a score I've ever seen. All of the evidence of man's "rebirth" in space was evident to me - learning how to walk in zero gravity, baby food, toilet instructions, etc. What is a little unclear to me is when Dr. Flyod and his party visit the monolith on the moon and the sun aligns with it and the loud high frequency pitch is heard. I'm not sure what the significance of that is.
Jump to the Jupiter Mission. The space ship Discovery and its crew, complete with the HAL9000 (the supercomputer server at my school is named "HAL") is on its way to Jupiter because the monolith on the moon received or emitted some radio signal from Jupiter. To me, this represents the monolith on the Moon as the point leading to the end of man's evolution. By the same token that the monolith on Earth was what lead Man to start its evolution.
The computer HAL represents Man's final tool. Man, in his evolution has created and discovered new technology. He done this so well and advanced so far, that he can now create artificial intelligence. His tools are smarter and more capable than Man is, and therefore Man is not necessary. When HAL makes a mistake (one of the signs that HAL is quite human-like), the two astronauts discuss shutting him off in one of the pod's on Discovery so HAL does not hear what they say. Unfortunately for them, HAL is much smarter than they think. In another one of the landmark shots in the film, we see HAL's perspective of the discussion and how he reads their lips. While one of the astronauts is replacing the part HAL mistakedly told them would malfunction, HAL kills him. HAL then proceeds to kill the other members of the crew that are asleep (not sure what their significance is) and locks Keir Dullea outside Discovery.
He gets back inside through Man's ingenuity and shuts off HAL manually using a simple tool - what appears to be a screwdriver. Doomed to death without HAL operating the ship, the remaining astronaut journeys to Jupiter. He travels in a pod meets another monolith. Then, through a cool acid-trip-like scene he travels through flashing lights and designs to a Victorian Room. To me, the journey through the lights looks a lot like the creation of the universe.
In the room, the astronaut sees himself, older, eating alone at a table. He is then eating at the table, and no astronaut can be seen. He knocks over his wine, and the glass shatters, but the wine is still there. As others have stated in this thread, this represents the spirit remaining when the body (the glass) is broken. I believe that Victorian Room was created by what or whoever put the monoliths on Earth and the Moon. Whether it physically exists or not it was created to house Man's final growth to death. We see the astronaut get older and older and is finally on his death bed, extremely old and he reaches out to the air. This could be symbolic of many things, reaching to his Creator, reaching at the monolith in the room at this time like the apes and other men did, the exit of the spirit from the body, etc. We then see the star child, what appears to be a spirit entity. The last shot shows the Star Child beside the Earth.
As I said above, the film left me shell-shocked. I was amazed at the visuals and it left me deep in thought. As Ebert says in his review of 2001:

The genius is not in how much Stanley Kubrick does in ``2001: A Space Odyssey,'' but in how little.

What makes this film so great is that Kubrick didn't make it obvious exactly what he intended us to grasp from the film, his little use of dialogue but rather stunning visuals and compelling music carry the story. I doubt any two people share the exact same views of what the film is expressing. All I know is it spoke to me, and I am still thinking about it. I'll have to watch this again very soon.
Seb
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"I deem him one of the greatest beings alive in our time. I do not see his like elsewhere. His name will live in English letters; it will live in the annals of war; it will live in the legends of Arabia." - Winston Churchill on T.E. Lawrence

 

[Sebastian_M]

Oh and for the record, I concur:
"Stench??"

Seb
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"I deem him one of the greatest beings alive in our time. I do not see his like elsewhere. His name will live in English letters; it will live in the annals of war; it will live in the legends of Arabia." - Winston Churchill on T.E. Lawrence

 

[Jack Briggs]

Sebastian: I am so happy you've come to see the film's brilliance, and I am delighted you had such an epiphanous experience watching it.
To the rest of you's guys: I am no longer writing the promotional materials Herbalife uses to con people out of their money. That relationship came to an end last year. Now I'm back to writing legitimate journalism. (I s'pose I should alter my profile to reflect my much more pleasant reality these days.)
Finally: How about "pleasant stench"?
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[Peter Kline]

Fellows as a non-smoker the smell that I remember at the Warner Cinerama Theater on Hollywood Blvd. was neither sweet nor appealing. It smelled mostly like burning garbage to me.

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[Peter Apruzzese]

What is a little unclear to me is when Dr. Flyod and his party visit the monolith on the moon and the sun aligns with it and the loud high frequency pitch is heard. I'm not sure what the significance of that is.

The way I (and many others) have looked at that scene you describe is that it's a beacon that signifies that man has now reached the technological point where we are engaging in space flight. The beacon is an "alarm clock" to alert the alien species that planted it that we are ready for the next step. The scene of Dr. Floyd talking (after the deactivation of HAL) has a little explanation. He says "Except for a single, powerful radio transmission - aimed at Jupiter - the black monolith, etc....".

 

[Jack Briggs]

And Peter is 100 percent correct. (Picking up the latest DVD Access this evening, btw--looking forward to your review of the DVD of that other SF film I'm so obsessed about.)
And Peter Kline noticed the aroma of what would now be called, I believe, "ditchweed." Wouldn't know myself. ...
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[Sebastian_M]

Ahh, now it makes sense Peter. That was the emission to Jupiter. Thanks.
Seb
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"I deem him one of the greatest beings alive in our time. I do not see his like elsewhere. His name will live in English letters; it will live in the annals of war; it will live in the legends of Arabia." - Winston Churchill on T.E. Lawrence

 

[Tino]

Jack Briggs
I just wanted to chime in and say that it's always a pleasure to read your posts regarding the masterpiece that is 2001.
Your obvious love and appreciation for the film is refreshing and contagious. Mr. Kubrick I'm sure would have enjoyed your enthusiasm.
Every great film should have a fan like you.
Cheers

 

[Tino]

BTW, Al Brown and Peter Kline are no slouches either in the 2001 love circle.
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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.

 

[Evan Case]

quote: the 2001 love circle.[/quote]
Images of Mark Borchardt's Coven (as seen in the amazing American Movie) come to mind.
Evan
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"* * * * * * * * * * * * *" - Buster Keaton
AFI List: Meesa finished!
S&S: 26 films left

 

[Rain]

I want in the love circle.
I haven't checked this thread in a while...I'm pleased to see we actually have a convert! Do you think it's too soon or should we tell him what really happened to Jimmy Hoffa?

I was about 16 the first time I REALLY watched 2001, too. Ah, how time goes by.
Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go do something about the stench in my apartment.
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Rain

 

[Bill McA]

The computer HAL represents Man's final tool. Man, in his evolution has created and discovered new technology. He done this so well and advanced so far, that he can now create artificial intelligence. His tools are smarter and more capable than Man is, and therefore Man is not necessary. When HAL makes a mistake (one of the signs that HAL is quite human-like), the two astronauts discuss shutting him off in one of the pod's on Discovery so HAL does not hear what they say. Unfortunately for them, HAL is much smarter than they think. In another one of the landmark shots in the film, we see HAL's perspective of the discussion and how he reads their lips. While one of the astronauts is replacing the part HAL mistakedly told them would malfunction, HAL kills him. HAL then proceeds to kill the other members of the crew that are asleep (not sure what their significance is) and locks Keir Dullea outside Discovery.

Sebastian
In my interpretation of the film, HAL doesn't make a mistake.
HAL, the only member of the Discovery crew that knows the purpose of the mission, deliberately kills the crew because HAL believes that he is superior to Man, therefore he should be the one to take the 'big step'.
There is no reason why a computer should not be able to evolve!
HAL realizes that when the Discovery reaches it's destination, the 'higher beings' will be confronted with both Man and his (superior?) tool, HAL.
The dilemma is of course, who is the superior, Man or his tools? Has Man retained control of his tools, or have his tools superseded him?
The events on the Discovery are essentially a re-enactment of the Dawn of Man sequence, only this time it is HAL that is flexing his intellectual muscle, rather than the apes.
Ultimately, Man once again proves himself.
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[Seth Paxton]

Obviously Tino is bucking to score some "kind" or "skunk" with all that praise. Tino, Herbalife is NOT selling that. Actually I thought Herbalife had gone out of business, but I guess not.

 

[Tino]

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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.

 

[Coressel]

Herbs Are Lovely.

 

[Sebastian_M]

Bill,
I agree that HAL deliberately killed the astronauts, but after reading your post I'm unsure as to why. Whether he did it because he was angry and afraid of being shut off (remember him begging not to be when the last astronaut was doing it), or whether he killed them, as you said, because he believed he was a superior being.
I don't agree with you that computers can evolve. Ordinary ones at least cannot. Which brings up another deep question: Can artificial intelligence evolve along the same Darwinian lines as Man?
Seb
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"I deem him one of the greatest beings alive in our time. I do not see his like elsewhere. His name will live in English letters; it will live in the annals of war; it will live in the legends of Arabia." - Winston Churchill on T.E. Lawrence

 

[Bill McA]

I agree that HAL deliberately killed the astronauts, but after reading your post I'm unsure as to why. Whether he did it because he was angry and afraid of being shut off (remember him begging not to be when the last astronaut was doing it), or whether he killed them, as you said, because he believed he was a superior being.

HAL killed the crew because he felt that he had to prove his superiority over Man, before the eyes of the monoliths.
He knew that some sort of evolutionary process was imminent and HAL wanted to be the recipient of that process.
HAL wanted to evolve, it was survival of the fittest, not unlike Moonwatcher killing the rival ape or the cheetah (unshown in the film).
Also, if Man were chosen to evolve, would they still need their tools (computers such as HAL)?
Probably not.
For HAL, it was a simple matter of survival and hopefully evolution. Everything HAL did was quite deliberate and planned, he never made a mistake.
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[Peter Kline]

Well you know "love means never having to completely understand what "2001" is all about!"

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