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20-39PC+ & 16-46PC+ owners help me decide (1 Viewer)

Dale Ridgeway

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
72
hey everyone,
I have narrowed down the choice between the two mentioned models. Upon closer inspection the sub has passed the all important WAF. (although I dont think she realizes the actual size :D )
The sub will be going in the den which is pretty small
(2400 cubic feet) with three small archways leading to different rooms.
Is the extra extention the 16-46PC+ noticible in a room this size versus its overall loss of total SPL?
I guess what Im saying at what point am I trading too much of one thing for another.
I want to FEEL the bass that ive never felt before, yet I want it LOUD too.
I know many of you have the best of both worlds by having dual SVS's. My $1000 budget rules this out at the moment.
I would like to know how many of you decided between the two models.
My point of reference is my deftec prosub 100.
While it worked fine in an apartment a couple of years ago, it is seriously lacking in a house where I like to let the volume loose.
Hometheater mag tested my sub at something like 93db at 30HZ and dropping to 82db at 20HZ ..... does this mean that if the response of an SVS is over 20db higher at 20HZ that it is roughly 4 TIMES as loud as my sub at 20HZ?
Any help would be greatly appriciated.
 

terence

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
985
does this mean that if the response of an SVS is over 20db higher at 20HZ that it is roughly 4 TIMES as loud as my sub at 20HZ?
This all depends on your room responce because it will vary room to room, but you have a small room so if i had to guess wiil smoke your sub in the 20hz area.
 

Lynn Little

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 7, 2002
Messages
98
"Is the extra extention the 16-46PC+ noticible in a room this size versus its overall loss of total SPL?"

I think the extra extension will be noticable. My HT is 2200 cubic feet, with a couple of large openings in the rear. I replace my old Sunfire True Sub MkII with a single 16-46PC+ a couple of months ago. The output I got from the single 16-46PC+ was VERY acceptable. Lots of extremely clean, extremely low bass, MUCH better extension than my old Sunfire.

I rec'd my second 16-46PC+ a week ago today. I didn't get it because I needed it, I got it because I WANTED it.

If I only had $1000 to spend on subwoofage, I'd buy a 16-46PC+ in a heartbeat. If I only had $1800 to spend on subwoofage, I'd buy TWO 16-46PC+s, just like I did...

Anyway, get either a 16-46PC+ or a 20-39PC+. You won't regret it.
 

Dale Ridgeway

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
72
thanks guys,
Im still on the fence. I never thought picking a sub would be so difficult.

Lynn, what sort of SPL readings do you get in room?
Anyone else feel free to share their freq. response for their PC PLUS models.
At this point it's almost a coin flip. In any case, I imagine that it will destroy my present sub. :)
 

Lynn Little

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 7, 2002
Messages
98
"Lynn, what sort of SPL readings do you get in room?"

LOTR, Saurons helmet drops to the ground. I measured 108 decibels (twin 16-46PC+s 14' from rshack meter), no bottoming, absolutely no distortion that I could detect, felt like wind blowing against my face!

I couldn't play it any louder. It was too freaking loud! I'm 47 and I want to be able to hear when I'm 87...
 

Jeremy Anderson

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 23, 1999
Messages
1,049
Go with the 20-39PC+. If you think you want to go a little deeper, you can always plug one of the ports to lower the tuning to 16Hz, but I think you'll be perfectly satisfied with it as-is.
 

Jeffrey Forner

Screenwriter
Joined
Jun 19, 1999
Messages
1,117
I have a 16-46PC+, so I do have a bias on this matter. Personally, if you really want the 16-46 model that badly, I say just go for it. The extra $50 you spend on it will buy you some peace of mind. You won't ever have to ask yourself, "What would it be like if I had gotten the big one?"

Besides, I doubt you will have any problem achieving the SPLs you want in a room of that size. The PC+ is a monster of a sub, designed to fill up large rooms with deep articulate bass. I should know. I run mine in a room that's approximately 3,400 cubic feet. Do I have any complaints? Not one. Get the big one. You will love it.
 

Frank Carter

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
1,187
It sounds like you won't be happy unless you know you're going as low as possible, I think a 16-46PC Plus is in order:).



The SPL numbers are hard to compare if they're not taken under the same comditions. It depends on the room size, placement, seating/measurement position, and distortion levels.
 

Dale Ridgeway

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
72
thanks guys,
Does anyone know if the begining scene in LOTR when Sauron loses his helmet and the subsquent shockwave is below 20 HZ?
My present sub distorts like crazy during that scene.
It also sounds horrible when the ringwraith first encounter Frodo on the side of the road.
 

Edward J M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
2,031
Does anyone know if the begining scene in LOTR when Sauron loses his helmet and the subsquent shockwave is below 20 HZ?
Sorry to disappoint you Dale, but the "reverse sweep" shockwave you are referring to only extends down to about 50 Hz. It IS quite loud in amplitude, though.

In fact, the just prior "ring drop" scene DOES have significant energy in the 20-25 Hz region and is approximately the same amplitude as the Sauron "reverse sweep". I always tell people, if the ring drop does not give you about the same peak volume as the reverse sweep, your sub is checking out early.

Th Frodo/Wraith encounter has loud bass in the 30-40 Hz region, with an underlying 22 Hz bass line dubbed in that only the best subs will reproduce properly.

Regards,

Ed
 

JimmyK

Second Unit
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Messages
479
Real Name
Jim
I interpreted your letter a little different from some here. It seems to me you would favor higher SPLs over the deepest extension.

I want to FEEL the bass that ive never felt before, yet I want it LOUD too.
Believe me, you WILL feel 20hz at high levels! 20hz is indeed a very low frequency!

IMO, you would be happy with the 20-39PC+. I don't think you would miss a few Hz below 20Hz (which, BTW is very rare in recordings).

Also, when SVS says the 20-39PC+ is flat to 20Hz, they mean it! I've found they do not exaggerate their specs. Of course the actual response you will get in your particular situation cannot be predicted. Per chance if you got the 20-39PC+ and did not like it, SVS's generous return policy would allow you to exchange it for the 16-46PC+.

In case your wondering, I own the 16-46PC+. Even though I'm happy with it, if I had to do it over, I would probably choose the 20-39PC+ for the extra headroom.

Let us know what you choose and what you think of it.

JimmyK
 

Dale Ridgeway

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
72
That seems to be the awesome thing about SVS is that you know what you are getting.....even making a blind internet purchase.
Thanks for the info on LOTR ... I had suspected that that many bass heavy scanes were actually lower than they are. I guess it's more of an indicator of the inablity of my sub to produce those freq. at high levels without vast amounts of distortion.
It sounds like Im leaning towards the 20-39 since I could always plug a port and have a mini 16-49:)
It's funny how we can get caught up in marketing and promises from other companies. I remember the saleman telling me how my present little sub would go subsonic and how much you would FEEEL the bass.
I guess he wasnt totally full of crap because it will play a 20 hz test tone. But its sure not going to rattle the fillings out of your teeth and shake things off of the walls.
i almost forgot, I purchased the 1812 SACD a few weeks ago, because it was touted as THE reference disc. While the clarity is amazing, is my lack of a big sub the reason im not so impressed. The drums sound powerful, but the cannon shots have no bottom end really. I expected a concusion blast!!! I read somewhere that the cannon shots has ridiculous bass. Is it mostly of the variety that my sub cant produce? hence the sound of extremly loud firecrackers.
 

Mark Zimmer

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
4,318
I think that with the LOTR and Star Wars films as examples, DVD producers will continue to see "how low can you go" in their audio mixes. I think the future will hold an increasing numbers of films that go well below 20 hz. Accordingly, the 16-46 is your best bet for future-proofing. If it doesn't have the SPL you want, you can always add a second. If you go with a 20-39, I don't think SVS recommends mixing it with a 16-46, so you'll always be wondering if there's more depth you're not getting.

I have a single 16-46PCi and have never, ever, felt it in the least lacking in volume and even the most extreme stuff has never had a straining quality to it, and I've got a room a shade bigger than yours. I've got to believe that the 16-46PC+ will probably do you just fine.
 

MingL

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
214
I've got a 16-46PC+, and a mate of mine has got a 20-39 PC+. Its difficult to immediately point out the 16-46 goes lower than the 20-39, but it feels great to know that the sub can go that low when called upon. I guess it really would be splitting hairs to say which is better over the other.

Anyhow, the feeling of 16hz tone at 115dB is a weird feeling..... it seems like my hearing is starting and stopping 16 times a second........ *grins*:D ...... I like it!
 

Dale Ridgeway

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
72
If possible,
could you guys tell what kind of readings you guys are getting at 30HZ, 25HZ, 20HZ and below 20.
Im aware that all rooms are different and I have a small room, but I'd like to see how close the readings are.
Thanks,
Dale
 

MingL

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
214
I'm using a 16-46 PC+ in a 1500 cu ft concrete walled room.

Supposed to change the BFD settings weeks ago, but can't find to time to do it yet.(Will try to do tune the bfd this weekend, I hope) Just to give an idea what it can do.



 

Dale Ridgeway

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
72
Hey everyone,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I finally pulled the trigger yesterday.
I ended up purchasing the 16-46+.
After nights of tosssing and turning I had decided on 20-39+.
I actually had the 20-39 in the basket when I checked the B-stock.
Well, there was the 16-46+ for the same price.
I guess it wasnt LOUD enough for somebody :D
Since I could have really flipped a coin and been happy with either, I decided to go with the biggun since they were the same price.
I'm sure the next week or so are going to be hell:)
 

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