(2) SUBS for the price of (1) SVS = something to think about, or laugh at? (1 Viewer)

[Jack Gilvey]

Really? They look about the same to me, with the PB12 having more output for more money and a bigger box. Certainly the PB10 drops very quicky by design to protect the woofer. Vented alignments drop @ 24dB/oct below tuning, and any infrasonic filters present increase the slope.

 

[Mark Danner]

Hey Mike, I just got my PB12-ISD/2 today. I snuck away from work so I could be home to accept delivery and then rushed back to work. First impression is......its BIG! I hooked it up and played the first couple minutes of LOTR: TT. WOW!! Pretty awesome! Thats without any calibration at all. I think the gain was only at 35%-40% and at -18 on my receiver.

 

[Mike_Cif]

This has been a great discussion for sure, certainly there are many educated folks here that certainly know the monsters from the toys when it comes to subwoofers, and just wanted to let you know I appricate all your great comments I've learned some great things. The last Item that I wanted to comment on is that I stongly believe in material above 25hz is just as important as the 25hz and lower bass that we have all been discussing in this thread. In some ways 25hz and higher reproduction could be more important on a whole because of the general amount of bass in movie soundtrakcs in this region. I've been told by a few that the HPS1000 actually would out-perform a SVS PB12/2 in this area because of the sheer SPL of the infinity, and its ability to perform very well in this spectrum. I've also read on a few threads that the SVS is not necessarily the most MUSICAL subwoofer, and one would not expect with such a huge magnet and huge XMAX design, as I believe its pure purpose is more for the ultra freq bass. Without a question the SVS i'm certain plays 25HZ and lower quite a bit better then the HPS1000, and it would be safe to say that SVS produces one of the best ultra low freq subwoofers at good prices. The question is for atleast me is it worth to spend $700 more to gain access to 25hz to 18hz of deeper bass , that plays perhaps 15% in a movie? Sure if your watching IROBOT you'd agree at that moment, but how many movies a year do I watch like that , perhaps a few. Honestly I'm more into foreign movies, I've given up on hollywood as of late (although thats another story). I'd also be giving up a bit of SPL on the higher bass notes, and perhaps a bit less musical by getting a SVS. Maybe its worth the upgrade, but its hard to decide, I hope that atleast others can see another side of things.

Thanks!

 

[Lewis Besze]

Musical sub is a subjective phrase.Some do believe that by rolling off the last octave will make the sub more musical,as it seems "faster".Others believe that extended output is desirable,as many recorrdings have accoutical cues "carried" in those ferquencies,like the size of the auditorium,the recording was made ETC..
Others like myself just flat out wants the sub to reproduce whatever is the recording without roll offs or humps in the lowest octaves.
On a subjective level I had found the HPS-1000 much more an HT sub then music sub.It's presence[after calibration]was always more then subtle,it called attention itself more often then I liked on music cuts. It's emphasis on the 40hz thump made it sounded "one note" on many material.This was of course before I started to realize the ill effects a room can have on a sub,and I was able to make this sub better with placement and EQ.Having said that, I don't own an SVS sub but I did set up 2 different HTs for friends who had them.In both cases the sub was amazingly flat in a position we just happened to tuck 'em in ,which led me to believe that this is hardly a coincidence[numerous testemonies on this board also attest to that],but rather "engenieered" that way.
Regarding if the SVS or similar type subs will worth the extra money,well only you can decide.To me upgrading a sub was always about better extension,as it is not too hard for a sub to pump out alot at 40 hz and above,especially in a typical size/shape room.However if ultra low extension isn't your priority,then enjoy what you have.

 

[ScottCarr]

I have seen the term "musical sub" many times. Having had 8 variants of the SvS product line each and everyone seems to disappear in music playback. While sitting on the recliner my preference is to have a blend than an overwhelming presence. Musical or not the SvS sound pretty darn good to me and others that have heard my set up.

Mike as I am reading yor posts it seems as if you are looking for a person ti pipe up and say, Yes you made the right choice and $700 is not worth the next level. This is why there are numerous choices for us. Some what the roll off that increases the thump while others want the flat response down low. For me the decision would drive me crazy and the wondering would drive me insane.

Either way if you have the opportunity to try and SvS you just may find it is worth the $700.

 

[Mike_Cif]

Well I'm ready to listen, call me old fashioned but I have a hard time handing over 1k for something I've never heard, and if I don't like it will have a hell of a time getting ride of it because of its sheer size and weight, although I have heard SVS has a nice return policy not sure to what degree. Yes, I'd LOVE to demo a SVS PB12/2, which frankly most likly would make my jaw drop another mile then it already is(being able to demo a SVS is another problem on its own, this doesn't seem easy) although would it just be some bass cd , because I'm currently trying to determine exactly how much material goes to 25hz and lower in movie soundtracks. Is there any records of movie soundtrack and the freq makeup? Useful information like that could really make or break me. If I see that nearly every movie with good LFE dips to 25hz and lower on a good amount, spending that $700 More starts to not sound so bad. But lets just say for example, that only a few movies(I could be completely wrong here) extend to 20,18hz would it be worth it? Hopefully I'll get there, but sometimes I feel my ears might appreciate $700 more in NAD AMPS then 25 - 18 Hz bass.

 

[Joe Thompson]

Mike,
Maybe I am not seeing it but where is the "$700" figure coming from.....in your original post you say 2 Polk PSW505's are $589 shipped & the SVS PB12-ISD for $660 shipped...a difference of $71. Then you bring in the SVS PB12-ISD/2 for $899 plus shipping. If shipping was close to the same($60-$75) it would be $975 shipped....a difference of $386.

One thing I would consider is it can be difficult to calibrate 2 subs in 1 room. You might have a problem with phasing using 2 subs & it looks like the Polk just has a switch(0 to 180 degrees), also from what I see with Polk's specs, the sub is 3db down at 28hz....which means it is half as loud at 28hz. So it actually starts to roll off above 30hz...It might depend on what your main speakers are capable of, but I would not buy a sub that doesn't do well in the sub 30hz region....just my opinion, I think sound engineers & movie studios are thinking about LFE more now than ever & it seems more & more movies & music have info in the 30hz & below region.....

Like I said...this is just my opinion, & yes I do own a SVS 25-31 pci....

Joe

 

[Lewis Besze]

Joe, Mike bought an Infinity HPS-1000 for $300[it used to retailed for over $1k],so there is the $700+ difference.

 

[Frank Carter]

I've owned the HPS1000 and measured flat reponse down to 22Hz without the sub being corner loaded from my listening position(about 12ft away). I think it's an excellent sub that is an absolute steal at the $300 you paid for it. I've owned a few SVS' and built a few subs using the orignal SVS CS driver. IMO, the HPS1000 is similar in performance to the 25-31PCi, similar extension with maybe just a tad less output because I thought it was about equal to the original 25-31PC. Comparing it to the PB12-ISD/2 isn't really a fair comparison since a 25-31PCi's performance is roughly equal to half of that.

 

[Calvin S]

I'm a little surprised no one has replied to this question, but the SVS website has frequency graphs for various points in quite a few movies. Go to their homepage, click on Questions, FAQs, then "What are some great bass demos". For example, the "Where we are grown" scene from the Matrix has quite a bit at about 20 Hhz. You can look through that list to see if any are movies that interest you, and of course that's by no means a complete list. I recall seeing a thread here in the forum, you should be able to find it by searching, where a member was doing his own bass graphs in a little different format than SVS.

I think the short answer is yes, quite a few movies do have material under 25, in fact it's not uncommon to have material under 20 or 15, but it certainly depends on the movie type. Perhaps none of the movies you watch would have material that low, and you may be fine missing it.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Some recent movies/THX trailers have had bass down to 10Hz. I believe the opening spaceship explosion in "Attack of the Clones" got down this far, along with the THX trailer from this film.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>I'm a little surprised no one has replied to this question, but the SVS website has frequency graphs for various points in quite a few movies. Go to their homepage, click on Questions, FAQs, then "What are some great bass demos". For example, the "Where we are grown" scene from the Matrix has quite a bit at about 20 Hhz. You can look through that list to see if any are movies that interest you, and of course that's by no means a complete list. I recall seeing a thread here in the forum, you should be able to find it by searching, where a member was doing his own bass graphs in a little different format than SVS.

 

[Mike_Cif]

Tom thanks for the info , and I was actually pointed to the section you speak of on your website from another member and spent some time last night. First off the charts you offer are excellent, and awesome to see and prove that there is certainly a good deal of bass in the 20hz and lower region, that I'm not hearing, or should say feeling even with the HPS1000. Now that I would consider upgrading even again from just a week ago, maybe you could help me as I feel the PB12/2 would be what I'd want to counter the HPS1000. Would you have any other recommendations from your models, would the PB12/2 offer the same SPL as the HPS1000, and general impact above 25hz? I'm already certain it would be better 25hz and lower.

Thanks again!

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Tom thanks for the info , and I was actually pointed to the section you speak of on your website from another member and spent some time last night. First off the charts you offer are excellent, and awesome to see and prove that there is certainly a good deal of bass in the 20hz and lower region, that I'm not hearing, or should say feeling even with the HPS1000. Now that I would consider upgrading even again from just a week ago, maybe you could help me as I feel the PB12/2 would be what I'd want to counter the HPS1000. Would you have any other recommendations from your models, would the PB12/2 offer the same SPL as the HPS1000, and general impact above 25hz? I'm already certain it would be better 25hz and lower.

Thanks again!

 

[Mike_Cif]

> Hi Mike,
Unfortunately I don't know of any objective measurements on the hps1000...so any comparisons I make would just be guesses. You might be able to do a search on HTF for that model to see if anyone has been able to compare it to something from SVS. I seem to remember someone starting with a hps1000 and then upgrading to a SVS or a DIY and posting their impressions a while back.
The PB12-plus/2 is very potent >30hz though...I would be surprised if you didn't think it at least matched the clean output/dynamics of the HPS1000 in that regard. Have you already experiemented with the placement and phase control on the hps1000?
Tom V.
SVS>

Tom, Thanks for the reply. My main concern is that upgrading to the pb12/2 will cost me some money, and understanding that SVS makes some truly great products I just hope that it will still offer the same type of output. I've done some moving around with the sub and phase control, and honestly I think the subwoofer is performing out-standing. Although in this hobby its always, could it be better and after looking at some of the charts offered on your site perhaps it would with some ULTRA low parts, is there any recommendations I could do to fiqure the output to help you judge if the PB12/2 will be above the HPS1000 in terms of output?

Thanks alot

 

[MikeLi]

Very short comment.. I went from two 750 Watt, 12" NHT subs to one SVS PB2+ now the PB12/+2 somthing.....
There is no compairison for movies which is 80% of my system use. I also find the SVS just fine for my music but I also have large mains. Love the SVS and love to feel the hairs move on those low and hard LFE sceens.

 

[Frank Carter]

I went directly from an HPS1000 to an 20-39CS Plus/Samson S1000(then to a CS Ultra later). The Infinity was very good but it really didn't match the 20-39CS Plus in terms of overall output, definition, or extension. The subs were level matched and in the exact same location with all other equipment being the same. The PB12ISD/2 should have similar extension with a whole lot more output.

I've also directly compared it to a sonosub I built using the original SVS CS driver w/ a flared 4" port. Going by SVS nomenclature it would be a "16-50CS", it was powered by a 250w amp. Besides the extra extension my DIY sub had, I would say it was similar in output when there wasn't any extremely low bass(where the DIY sub had a big advantage). So IMO a good way to think of the HPS1000 is to think of the output a 16-46PCi would give you but you'd get the extension of a 25-31PCi.

Frank