2 channel dvd-audio= no subwoofer output?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeff Adams, Feb 7, 2002.

  1. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    I am sure this has been talked about before. But I was listening to dvd-audio last night and it is driving me crazy when listening to 2 channel dvd-audio. Why is there nothing coming from my sub? When playing surround dvd-audio, my subwoofer is active, how can I get my subwoofer to be active during 2 channel playback? My sub is active when playing back 2 channel cd's. I just ordered an sacd player, I hope I do not run into the same problem.
     
  2. Ryan Spaight

    Ryan Spaight Supporting Actor

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    The two words high-res audio fans dread: bass management.
    I'm guessing you get sub activity with your CDs because your receiver is splitting the bass from the two front channels to your sub channel, which you essentially told it to do when you set it up with your front speakers as SMALL. If you have your DVD-A hooked up via the 5.1 inputs, this won't work for stereo since the 5.1 inputs generally bypass bass management.
    One solution would be to hook your DVD-A stereo outputs to an input on your receiver that does bass management. Unfortunately, most receiver do bass management in the digital domain, so unless you have a new higher-end receiver with good DACs, chances are you'll be resampling the audio back down to a level where the advantages of DVD-A would be lost.
    Another solution, if you don't mind spending money and having lots of cables is the Outlaw ICBM (check www.outlawaudio.com for more).
    A solution that involves fairly serious reconfiguration of your system would be wiring up your sub speaker-level (using its internal crossover) and setting your receiver so that the fronts are LARGE and the sub is NO. In that mode, the low bass will be routed to the fronts, and the sub crossover will split it out and send it to the sub, and send the rest to your fronts. This will cure your DVD-A stereo problems, since the sub will be "in the loop" for anything that's sent to the front speakers.
    Finally, DVD-A players that include onboard bass management are coming -- I know Denon has several models either out or in the pipe, and the Kenwoods do this as well.
    The SACD player you're getting (775), as far as I know, includes a "2ch + sub" mode that should give you stereo through the 5.1 analog connection that sends the bass to the sub.
    Ryan
     
  3. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Hey Ryan, My receiver is actually a new model and one of the higher end models. It's the Marantz SR-9200. And I know it has some pretty good dac's in it. So what you are saying is that for both dvd-audio and sacd I should use the 2 channel outputs on the back of the units and go into cd in and cdr in on my receiver?
     
  4. Ryan Spaight

    Ryan Spaight Supporting Actor

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    This will likely be a point of controversy, but if your DACs are 24bit/192kHz, I'd think using the digital bass management in your receiver would be OK for DVD-A. (24bit/96kHz would be good enough for most situations, but there are a few stereo 192kHz DVD-A tracks out there.)

    SACD is a different beast. It uses DSD (Direct Stream Digital) instead of PCM (Pulse Code Modulation). Any digital bass management in a receiver would involve encoding to PCM, which most agree is detrimental to the decoded DSD signal.

    It will "work" in either case (you'll get two-channel output with the bass sent to the sub), but sound quality might suffer, which is the whole point of either format (at least in two-channel mode).

    I'm not up on Marantz receivers, but you might want to check and see if it does *analog* bass management on either the two-channel inputs or the 5.1 inputs. Some higher-end receivers can do this. If yours can, that would be a good solution, since the resampling wouldn't be an issue.

     
  5. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Ryan,
    In your last reply to Jeff, you've got most everything right, except for...
     
  6. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

     
  7. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Merc,

    You got me, that's what the manual refers to it as :)

    Regards,
     
  8. Ryan Spaight

    Ryan Spaight Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the additional info, John. I was thinking that the A-D-A conversion to do digital bass management in the receiver might not be terribly harmful as long as the sampling rates were as good or better, but I certainly respect the view that it's not a good idea.

     
  9. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    Okay, let me simplify this question. I have a dvd-audio and by Monday will also have sacd player. My receiver only has one set of 5.1 inputs. I plan on using the left and right outputs on my dvd audio player for stereo playback and hooking up my sacd player to the 5.1 inputs on my receiver. My question is, I have heard that the only way to listen to high rez 2 channel sacd is through the seperate left and right outputs they have on the sacd player not the left and right outputs from the 5.1 outputs. Is that true? Do I actually need to have 8 analog cables hooked up to my sacd player? And if that is the case do I just plug the left and right cables into ant analog input on my receiver such as cd in? Will the DSD, SACD signal be decoded right or loose any detail by listening to it through my cd in? I do not want to defeat the purpose of having an sacd player. My next question is, since I will be using the 5.1 inputs on my receiver for sacd, that leaves me with 2 channel for dvd audio. Will plugging in my dvd-audio player into another analog input on my receiver degrade the signal of dvd-audio? Iguess to make this alot simpler, do you have to use your 5.1 analog inputs on your recveiver to enjoy 2 channel sacd or dvd-audio? Or can you use any analog input on the back of your receiver to play sacd and dvd-audio?
     
  10. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Ryan,

    Nope, that's just it. The multiple conversions have a "subtractive" effect.

    Regards,
     
  11. Stan T

    Stan T Stunt Coordinator

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    You could get the new Pioneer Elite DV-47A Progessive DVD player. It does DVD-audio & SACD so you only need one 5.1 analog input on the receiver. It also plays MP3 CDs. It should be released anytime now. Soundpros.com should have it for under $800 shipped. I have one on order through them. They're great to deal with.

    Also the Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX receiver has analog in adjust which gives you control over crossover, tone controls, etc. Sound & Vision has a good article on it. They call it the perfect receiver. They say it is one of the first receivers to have analog in adjust for bass management. I have one & the DVD-audio sounds unbelievable now that I have bass management & controls. Before with the receiver that I had the DVD-audio sounded pretty weak. I can't wait to get the new DVD player so I can finally experience SACD.
     
  12. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    I was just thinking about this this morning, because my receiver also has only one set of 5.1 inputs.

    What I think would work, if it is available, is a 'piggy-back' connector. I don't know if that is the right term, I just build the entertainment centers and see what people have. I have seen connection devices that allow this type of connection, I just do not recall if they are coaxial or not.

    Also, if the receiver is 24-bit/96kHz and the dvd is 24-bit/192kHz, how much does that impact the playback?
     
  13. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Tony:

    In response to this question:
     
  14. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Tony,

    You asked about a Y adaptor in your previous post as well. This is a bad idea for an input, as you get loading issues presented to the input from the dual outputs.

    There are solutions such as Sony's TA-P9000ES multi-channel preamp, and Shawn Fogg's switchbox to handle multiple 5.1 outputs into a single 5.1 input.

    Regards,
     

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