2.35:1 format projector

Discussion in 'Displays' started by SteveLeach, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. SteveLeach

    SteveLeach Stunt Coordinator

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    Are there any native format 2.35:1 projectors? More out of curiosity than anything else.
     
  2. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    I'd like an answer to Steve's question as well.

    I'd also like to know if it's possible to turn *ANY* projector out there, into a 2.35:1 projector, so that all movies are the same height and the only thing that changes, would be the width of the screen as movies get more and more narrow.
     
  3. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Don't know of any projector with a native panel rez of this type. There are a number of people running constant height screens however. Done with one or more of software, zoom lense or mounting the projector on tracks.

    Personally I've adopted a constant area approach (excluding aspect ratios below 1.78:1). This way all my movie formats appear the same size on my screen giving them all the same impact. Check out my website for more details.
     
  4. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    I don't think I'd be interested in the Constant Area method.

    I have a question. You stated that people use software to do the Constant Height method. When you use software (let's say for instance, I were to use ZOOMPLAYER) would I be loosing resolution with smaller aspect ratios (like 4:3) for example, if I were to go with a 2.35:1 screen? I'd love to do this, but not at the cost of loosing resolution.
     
  5. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Only way software can do it is by losing resolution. You need an extremely cable zoom lense or the ability to move the projector backwards and forwards to do a constant height setup without throwing away resolution.

    You'll also likely need a lense shift, software aspect ratio control or the ability to move the projector or screen up and down to keep all the different aspect ratios centered on your screen.
     
  6. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Yes it is. It involves an anarmorphic lens and an external scaler.

    I plan on doing that some day, but for now I can't invest in stuff that costs more than the projector (the lens alone does...).

    AVS has a forum dedicated to this topic.

    --
    H
     
  7. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    Thank you Holadem. How much do anamorphic lens cost? Are there different kinds? Are some better than others? Will all anamorphic lens fit all projectors?

    When you say "external scaler," do you mean something like a computer equipped with a great video card?
     
  8. Jennifer B

    Jennifer B Extra

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    Mitch,

    There are basically two types of anamorphic lenses. The first compresses a 4:3 image to 16:9 (or 2.35:1 or whatever the lens is cut out for) proportion by keeping the same width. The resulting image will fit inside the original 4:3 screen and has black bars on top and bottom. The image will also be brighter than the orig 4:3 image because all the light is concentrated into the 16:9 band.

    The second expands a 4:3 image to widescreen proportion by keeping the same height. The resulting image will fill out the original 4:3 screen and expand further to the left and the right. The image will be darker than the orig 4:3 image because the light is spread over a larger area.

    You can get an idea of prices for example at panamorph.com although there are probably other suppliers out there. BizRate etc. will help you.

    To understand what a scaler does, you have to keep in mind that a lens will compress everything that comes out from the projector. If it's e.g. 16:9 material stretched by a 4:3 projector to fill the entire 4:3 screen, the lens will compress it back to 16:9.

    But what if you want to view native 4:3 material? That would of course also get compressed by the lens and everything would look shorter and fatter. So you either make the lens removable (esp. "pleasant" with a ceiling-mounted projector [​IMG] ), or you use a scaler to "pre-squeeze" the 4:3 image to fit inside the 16:9 band so that it will look OK after passing through the lens.

    all this info is easy (and probably faster) to find with a simple Google search
     
  9. John S

    John S Producer

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    I dunno Jennifer B, your post had a lot of good info compacted into it. Nice post....
     
  10. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    With a 2.35:1 anamorphic lenses aren't you just reversing the throwing away of resolution. 2.35:1 will use the entire panel, but to make any taller aspect ratio work you'll have to use less of the panel so it squishes or stretches right. That is unless you remove the lense.

    And an anomorphic lense still doesn't give you a constant height screen without using a zoom lense or moving the projector.
     
  11. Jennifer B

    Jennifer B Extra

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    Not if you use the second type of lens described in my post above.
     
  12. SteveLeach

    SteveLeach Stunt Coordinator

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    Very informative. So what types of scalers are people using? And what about CRT type projectors, can they do 2.35:1?
     
  13. Jennifer B

    Jennifer B Extra

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    I personally use a computer. And about CRT projectors, the ones with the three tubes, right... I doubt it'll work. You'd need a lens for each of the three tubes and they may even have to be cut in a special way since the three tubes are slightly offset... I've never heard of such thing. I also don't think there are native 2.35:1 CRT projectors.
     
  14. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Use a medium to long throw lensed (most short throw projectors will not work, or will cause significant distortion) 16x9 digital projector. You also may have some issues if the lens is recessed slightly into the case.

    The best choice right now is the horizontal anamorphic lens, the H-1000 from Prismasonic. From time to time AVS Forum has a power buy on Prismasonic lenses. Usually swings just over the $1,000 mark.

    The neat things about it is that it has very few visual aberisions for the money and a knob to turn the lens from pass-through all the way to a 2.35:1 mode, and stops for other ratios as well (you must calculate the amount of scaling to apply to the image for it to work for off standard ratios). That way the lens can stay permanently in place and you don't have to adjust for image offset on your screen, or major focusing changes or any kind of zooming.

    You need either good HTPC DVD player software like Theater Tek or Zoom Player that has aspect ratio control... and tweekability for fine adjustment, or a DVD player that does the correct ratio scaler for 2.35:1 movies (although, you're screwed when it comes to any other super wide format)... like the newer Samsung's, that also happen to have subtitle adjustment too for those pesky movie transfers that drop a portion of the subtitles into the lower black bar. Some lucky few will have a projector that does this same type of scaling for not only 480i/p resolutions, but HD resolutions as well (however, they're few and far between). The most expensive solution is an outboard digital scaler with full picture control on all resolutions, but those can cost anywhere from $1,500 to $12,000!
     
  15. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    You can do any native format you want with a CRT projector, though it's not a good idea to do 2.35 fixed height on a CRT since narrower AR will be not be maximizing phosphor usage.

    Yes you can 2.35 native with a digital with an anamorphic lens as mentioned.
     
  16. Mark Techer

    Mark Techer Agent

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    Just a quick note. Anamorphic lenses for home theatre are designed around a 33% stretch (for HE Horizontal Expansion) or compression (for VC Vertical Compression).

    Cinema anamorphic lenes are based on 2x stretch. Whilst you can use a cinema anamorphic lens, you really do need an external video scaler to squeeze the image so that the 2x HE lens can work. The result is however a loss in res because of the extra squeeze needed. Video application anamorphic lens are designed to offset the amount of squeezed applied to video, therefore optimizing the panel and giving full panel pixel rez.

    A 4 x 3 + lens = 16:9

    A 16:9 (run in 4 x 3 zoom mode or letterbox mode) + lens = 21:9 images with no black bars top or bottom and can be done with just a DVD player, 16:9 projector and an Video capable anamorphic lens... HERE is my 2.35:1 CIH Set Up. The player is set to 16:9, the projector is set to 4 x 3 zoom mode (this clips off the black bars and displays the image tall and thin) and the anamorphic lens (HE prisms type) restores the geometry...

    Mark
     

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