1933 King Kong in November (1 Viewer)

[Nils Luehrmann]

I have found that discussions over the last few months have shown a remarkable improvement in both tone and shared information.

Sure, there are disagreements, as expected, especially when/if subjective observations are being discussed, but over-all these controversial threads are full of excellent information and insights with many different opinions from various levels of experience being shared. The fact that this is happening without a barrage of flame wars breaking out shows just how knowledgeable, mature and understanding the HTF community is.

I'd say there are far more knowledgeable HTF members than there has ever been, as seen by the many recent threads with extremely well thought out discussions. A great deal of credit for that goes out to the countless members who go out of their way, and donate their time to share what they know or have read with the group. By doing this, it opens doors for these topics to be challenged, strengthened, and or modified. These group developed topics are often shared with others outside the forum, such that everyone benefits, not just those participating on the forum.

I've noticed over the last few years a significant increase in the number of members who have become far more observant regarding the quality of films and DVD's and I think one of the main reasons for that is the wonderful group of reviewers on HTF. David immediately comes to mind, as someone who's in-depth reviews have clearly elevated the knowledge and awareness of his fellow members when it comes to understanding and recognizing even the smallest of details on DVD's. He often goes a step further by either explaining what might be the cause of a deficiency on a DVD, or opening it for discussion in order to try and discover the reason/cause of a deficiency. The more aware we as consumers become of even the smallest of details involved in the production of film and DVD’s, the more likely studios will respond by providing better products.

Where perhaps Crawford sees complaints, I see observant individuals sharing their concerns. Others may very well disagree with them, and perhaps their concerns are unwarranted, but isn’t it great that they are free to bring it up for discussion so that perhaps it can be explained why their concern may indeed be unwarranted – rather than being unceremoniously labeled as trolls.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Hey Robert,

Forgive me if a take a moment and post some thougths that have been on my mind lately (given the flurry of discussion in various threads)...

While I feel your frustration with the "crap on every studio effort" posts we sometimes get in these threads...there is a very positive side to civil, but critical HTF discussion regarding high-profile title releases like this:

It is the very reason that the studios are doing such fine work...and improving every day.

Remember the first Ben-hur release that was so improperly cropped from the 35mm negative? Well...there were folks at HTF that blindly praised WB for their "great effort" to bring this title to DVD with such great quality. Then there were the detractors who criticized the studio for "faking" the proper 65mm aspect ratio by cropping even more info from an already-cropped 35mm print. Those folks were labeled as whiners by many here at the forum...the typical "picky" HTF poster who is just "never satisfied no matter how good a job the stuidos try to do". They were told that it was posts like theirs that were the reason that great studios like WB were participating less and less on our forum.

But...why do you think WB even bothered to revisit this title and properly frame it from a 65mm print?


What about Lawrence of Arabia? The first DVD looked "great" to novice eyes...but a few folks complained about the color balance and were again labeled as picky. Does the fact that Sony bothered to release a super-bit version from a (digitally) restored/color-corrected image now make that complaining minority correct in their original assessment?

What about Sound of Music? What about the EE on the Phantom Menace DVD? Or the poor audio edits on DVDs like Camelot? Framing on Kiss me Kate? Just when are posters true cinephiles doing the right thing by setting their expectations high and when are they just whining fans who are never happy?

IMO, the solution is simple:

1. The studios need to act like big-boys and not get offended everytime someone complains about something.
2. The fans who complain need to do so in a civil, respectful, and informed manner (ie: not just saying "WB doesn't care about the movies we love!" etc. when it's perfectly clear that they do). Item 1 and 2 of this list go hand-in-hand.
3. The studios should be PRAISED for things they do right...even on the same title where there may be things they do wrong.
4. Questions should be raised in a tone that doesn't assume the worst or assign blame...but just begs the question. ie: it's perfectly reasonable to wonder about the color balance of the new Ben-Hur or Oz DVD given that the same titles released on DVD just a few short years ago by the same "experts" at the same studio then decided on a very *different* color balance. That's not needless complaining to wonder why they look different and which one is "right"...that's an understandable question to ask.
5. When differences or problems are noted, they need to be put forth in a way that doesn't make sweeping assusmptions or villify the studio's agenda. It's quite possible that the framing on Kiss me Kate was an honest mistake that doesn't mean that the WB crew are "idiots" or "don't care"...mistakes happen.
6. Open discussion of all sides of an issue should be the backbone of any issue put forth at HTF...if folks like the blue tint on the older OZ disc they should be able to say so. If the yellow tint of the new disc is more accurate to the historic look of the projecte film, then knowledgable historians should say so. This is how we all learn and become better educated film enthusiasts.

Of course, all of the above is qualified by RESPECTFUL discussion from HTF members that seeks to uncover the truth and contribute to greater good. Posts writen out of ego-motivated agendas or put forth in a closed-state of mind or without regard to how wording or tone may unnecessarily show disrespect to other parties is never acceptable...not because we should have to have rules that cover ever possible discussion scenario but because HTF members should be guided by a philosphy and attiude that promotes courtesy and respect.

My two cents!

dave



Nils wrote:


That's exactly what I was trying to say. Well said!

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

I agree. I'd much rather sift through multiple pages of opionated yet incisive views and sometimes disaccording civil discussion by passionate people on the topic of film transfers and related subjects, than five hundred replicate voices of empty praise and worship. It adds energy and enthusiasm to the forum, and brings multiple layers of insight to discussions. That's one of the reasons I think HTF is such a strong and well regarded community. It's members know a lot about the subjects we discuss and are able to bring strong individual discerning opinions to the table. It makes for interesting topics of discussion.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Also worth mentioning is that in many cases even the *experts* disagree, or have different perspectives on the same core issue. Sometimes disagreements are a result of many "facts" about a particular issue being brought to light given the complexity of ways an informed person could choose to assimilate them.

 

[RickER]

DaViD, i agree with your thoughts 100%. But i will add the thing i find funny, and see where Robert Crawford comes from, are the people who bitch and dont even own the movie. You get a few screen grabs and people freak out. I have yet to see a screen grab that was right, or should i say looked that way on MY TV. I can see some spirited debate on known problems, but i get tired of the well if it looks like this screen grab= no sale for me! Also,I had made fun earlier on this Kong thread about waiting for someone to complain about Kong's fur ruffling. You know its a 70 year old movie, i bet it will look great for what it is. If anyone doubts about Warner they should look at how bad things could look. Grab one of those public domain movies put out by Madacy. NOW you could gripe all day about that!

 

[Kevin M]

True.....I just hope, as I said before, that people aren't setting their expectations too high.
When a "certain" film came out a few years ago some people were so amped up about it that when they finally saw the actual product they couldn't be anything but disappointed (I'll not mention the film but you can make a pretty good assumption about it), I said at the time "If you were expecting an experience so profound that it would be like Jesus, or any pertinent deity, walking down off the screen and kissing you on the forehead....then, yes, you were going to be severely disappointed!" and I offer the same warning with this...

It's going to look better than you have probably have EVER seen it but don't set yourself up for disappointment if you expect it to look 3D and be so realistic that you can almost smell Kong's banana breath....I mean I guess you could boil a few bananas in front of the TV and get the mood going but...

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

What David said. And you to, neighbor Nils. Well-meaning criticism, along with rightful praise, is good for all - enthusiasts and studios as well. Hey, Nils has this thing about correcting any and all errors in my posts on our Austin threads, and sometimes I'm on the fence about punching his lights out or inviting him over for a movie or a game of Texas Hold-'em. But, our mutual respect and interest in movies and HT transcend our posting tiffs, and we're the better for it.

Okay, I cancelled my Ben Hur order based on Nils' posts of the color shift and detail loss. I do have the previous boxed set with posters and extras, so I think that'll do me. I did let my Oz order stand, as I'm interested in the extras, and on Nils' advice, I'll look for the previous Oz release as my movie reference.

 

[Mark B]

That's too bad. I got the new Ben-Hur 3 days ago and found the transfer stunning.

 

[Kevin M]

If the Ben-Hur transfer was good enough for Robert A. Harris (using current DVD technology at least) then it's good enough for me....and I loved it before I even read RAH's "A Few Word's About....Ben-Hur" thread.

 

[Steve Christou]

[bites fist] Nils how could you? Bad Nils, bad bad Nils! But I know how Hank Frankenberg felt, I was nearly put off buying the new Wizard of Oz set, but I will get it and check it out for myself, and peruse the extras, woohoo!

As for Kong! Kong! Kong! Kong! Good, bad or merely hairy, it's a must have set. I'll be picking up both the R1 and R2 sets, 8 discs in total, um whats in the R3 sets?

 

[Daniel P]

I don't understand the need to buy two versions, from two different reasons... or is it just me?

 

[John Hodson]

Sorry, wrong thread; ignore!

 

[Ed St. Clair]

If I wanted to put together a 1933 premiere for my 10 year old nephew, what cartoons, shorts, newsreels, could I show?

Sure hope the have the radio ads for Kong on the DVD. They supposedly scared the devil out of folks in '33!

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Ed, that's a fantastic idea! I am thinking of doing a large outdoor screening for family and friends, as long as the weather permits it.

I wouldn't be surprised if you might find a lot of what you are looking for through public domain sites. You can then burn them on a DVD and play it as an intro.

My kids are too young, but it is a joy seeing the reaction of my nephews and the children of our friends when they come over and watch classic films for the first time and discover a world without CGI.

 

[ZackR]

This might sound like a lame question, but does anyone know what kind of case the actual discs from the Tin set are packaged in? I know the regular release is a keepcase, but looking at the packaging at Amazon here , it looks like the discs are in some kind of cardboard fold-out packaging. No big deal or anything, I am just curious mainly.

November 22 cannot get here fast enough!

 

[Kevin M]

It's a digi-pak, looks like it anyway.

 

[ZackR]

That's kinda what I figured from looking at it. I was just curious if anyone had seen any other shots confirming it.

 

[Paul_Scott]

from the Robert Harris Digital Bits interview with George F.

 

[ZackR]

Good catch, Paul. Thanks.

 

[John Sparks]

Nowhere does it say that the "The Son of Kong" will be released in "SEPIA" tone, as in the beginning of the "The Wizard of Oz," as RH alluded to a few months back.

Can anyone shed a light on this, was TSOK actually released in "SEPIA???"