192 kHz/24-Bit on DVD-Audio: Start Here

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mark_Waldrep, Feb 7, 2003.

  1. Mark_Waldrep

    Mark_Waldrep Stunt Coordinator

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    It's been some time since I've posted on this forum...the reading always interesting it not always accurate. One of the recent threads talked about the new "AIX Sampler Disc" that we've developed as a FREE premium with any purchase from our catalog. The disc greatly expands the amount of information and demonstration tracks over the previous sampler. It started out as a simple upgrade and began a 600 screen treatise on the format and the world of high-resolution, mutli-channel audio.

    As to the availability of 192 kHz/24-bit tracks on DVDs, this is the how it is handled. DVD-Audio can playback stereo recordings at 192 kHz/24-bits. The upper limit for 5.1 mixes is 96 kHz/24-bits encoded using MLP. As for the materials on our new Start Here disc, we recorded a half dozen new tracks using the Pacific Microsonics Model-2 convertor. When it came time to squeeze them on the DVD-Audio side of the disc space was limited...so we applied MLP to several of them and left the others as LPCM. The MLP algorithm is lossless so the there should be no difference...although it might an interesting comparison. You be the judge. I just thought that while I was creating this new DVD-Audio "textbook" disc, I should capture some new 192 kHz stuff. AIX intends to exploit 192 kHz/24-bit stereo as much as possible. Current plans call for 2-3 new productions per month.

    One final note. Any statement that claims that DVD-Audio format is somehow stalled or desparately behind the SACD camp should have access to the Sound Scan service. Just to give a couple of glimpses into the sales last December through a large retail chain, it seems that the two formats had roughly the same number of sales. SACD turned 62,921 to DVD-Audio's 57,418...and this includes the Stones Hybrid discs!

    At my own label, I am very happy to report that holiday sales have eclipsed my most aggressive forecasts. We are having severe growing pains and are pushed hard to get more copies replicated of Nitty Gritty Surround and The Latin Jazz Trio! The CES show in Las Vegas saw incredible sales...in fact, we ran out of several products. I'm convinced that great soundings records with multimedia, multiple mixes, video, interviews, and compatibility with all DVD players is a solid idea. Some of the new ones that we're completing even have multiple camera angle master classes by the performers. Imagine getting a guitar lesson with Laurence Juber.

    Just my two cents worth. Thanks to those who have supported our efforts...it's really starting to happen in a big way.
     
  2. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Mark,

    Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. I saw the Paul Smith Trio sealed at a local record store here in Burbank for $11.99. I am not familiar with Smith's music but may just pick it up anyway for that price. I know you have released a few new classical titles through Image I may be interested in, so will likely be considering some purchases of them as well. ANyway, keep up the great work and do try to post more often!

    Reg

    BTW - have you tried contacting Wendy Carlos to see if she would be interesed in doing some synthesizer music for AIX? I have the remastered 20-bit versions of her "Swiched on" box-set and it sounds GREAT - we're talking only 20/44 PCM here. I can only imagine what her stuff would sound like in 24/96 surround using your recording techniques to capture the performance....Just a thought.
     
  3. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  4. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    If it is the Best Buy chain you are talking about, forget about your numbers. They inventory DTS CDs with DVD-A and count them in Aacording to 2 Best Buy Mgrs. and DTS CDs are about 80% vs. 20% DVD-As. They also sold the James Taylor "JT" SACD in the CD section for $11.99 and counted it as a CD. I also saw the Elvis DVD-A in the CD section the other day. Audiophile independent labels like AIX, Chesky, Telarc, etc., are different from most other labels. Both formats are niche markets at this point and until there is software on the shelves by name artists from major labels that the mass market will buy they won't have made it (except for us nuts who buy the stuff). DVD-A with Warner's and EMI's deep financial troubles are slowing down what is already a niche format. While SACD is also a niche market, at least Sony is making an effort to increase hyrid capacity and decent amounts of software seem to be on the way. Sony is also working with hardware manufacturers and worked extensively with Linn on their platform for their forthcoming universal player.

    Neither format has done a good job educating the public. Time will tell if either is making improvements. I suspect by CES of next yr. with what has been released and announced as coming we will be able to better gauge the health of either format and where they are headed in the future.

    Mark, while you are here, is there a particular reason that you use the full size plastic cases for your releases. DVD-As mostly have that in-between size case that is too big for CD places and some have CD size cases as well. I like to keep my media together and when configuring media storage it is not easy. I also asked a store manager of a chain (Coconuts) if they will get more SACDs (besides the Stones) and DVD-As and one problem they noted was the storage of the inventory in all the various DVD-A cases.
     
  5. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  6. Mark_Waldrep

    Mark_Waldrep Stunt Coordinator

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    The reason that our titles are packaged in DVD-Video sized Super Jewel Box "King Size" is because they contain an entire side (a DVD-9) that is a DVD-Video disc complete with hours of video, interviews, hundreds of screens and multiple audio streams...DTS and Dolby Digital. I believe that the greater the media experience and the wider the compatibility, the greater the appeal of the product. I have lots of people write me expressing their fondness for the video and behind-the-scenes stuff.

    As for the debate between SACD and DVD-Audio, I meant only point out that my business is very healthy and growing quite rapidly. There is a tangible feeling among the label folks, reviewers and engineers that I talk to that DVD-Audio is no longer running behind SACD. Perceptions and tastes may vary but both formats are not going away...my money (obviously) is on the type of products that AIX is creating...fully featured, integrated multimedia pieces that have new high-resolution recordings, multiple mixes, video, interviews etc. It's working. SACD is a great format but simply too narrow in it's capabilities to satisfy the media needs of the vast majority of media consumers.
     
  7. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  8. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Mark,

    Is there any chance of you recording any rock music? I have been listening to the Pacifica radio network's local station (listener-supported) in my city to hear small-label bands and have heard lots of good-but-obscure music. Most of it sounds quite good (the station sounds almost CD-like sometimes) and there are lots of instrumentals, one of my favorite styles. Here's one of my favorite bands they play: http://www.theeltoros.com/bio.html

    Thanks!

    LJ [​IMG]
     
  9. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    Reggie, the Paul Smith disc is pretty nice. Latin Jazz and Patrice Rushen are better, though.

    Hi Mark, it's great to have you posting again. And, it reminds me check out the web site- I haven't bought any AIX stuff for a while. I remember you talking about some new classical stuff, including Stravinsky.

    You mention the multi-media aspect of DVD-A a lot. Unfortunately, very few discs actually use it beyond just the menus and a paltry set of "extras." That's too bad, as video content and the improved sound gives DVD-A the potential to be something truly unique.
     
  10. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    LanceJ.... Another Pacifica listener, huh? Great stations. My local one is WPFW, mostly (really good) Jazz and (also really good) Latin music. And of course, that fantastic Pacifica Network News. [​IMG]
     
  11. robertLP

    robertLP Stunt Coordinator

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    Um, 'part'??? Since when is 99% of the reason are buying something only 'part' of the overall picture???

    Go to ebay, and do a search for "Rolling Stones Forty Licks CD" including the descriptions. Then, do the same for "Rolling Stones Forty Licks SACD".

    When I tried it, I got 96 CD listings to *ONE* SACD listing. Go figure...

    Rob
     
  12. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  13. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  14. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  15. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Mark, glad to see you back here. You said:

     
  16. Wayne Bundrick

    Wayne Bundrick Cinematographer

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    Why does every thread have to degenerate into a DVD-A vs. SACD argument?
     
  17. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Well, take the bulk of the weekend away from the computer, and look what you get.

    Lee, a very quick question for you:

    Could you please compare and contrast the DVD-V material included on DVD-As with similar material available on any SACD produced to date. Here's your words.
     
  18. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    John, that assumes that one is buying hi-rez and wants some video content. I have few concert videos, but if I want one of those I will buy it and I do on rare occasion. I understand that may not be everyone's choice, but if I am buying music, I want quality with regard to the music (regarless of format not looking to make this a format war, I own both). I feel the same way about TVs. I am not going to buy a TV for its included speakers and amplifier as my system is much better. The CD format is the main format of choice endorsed by consumers (something like 94% of all music sales I believe I read). CD plus graphics or text may still exist for karyoke but was a failure other than that. If formats are to survive, other than a niche market, they need software from major labels and known artists. For the most part on a DVD-A, I listen to the music and if there is a short video or something (e.g. artist info) I may watch it once at most. Other than that, I don't place any value on the video content. Most people I know who like concert videos can't understand why I bought the DVD-A of "The Last Waltz" instead of the DVD-V. I just ordered a couple of SACDs and the DVD-A of "Music From Big Pink." When I order a DVD-A, I don't look to see what video content it has or does not have.
     
  19. robertLP

    robertLP Stunt Coordinator

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    Whoa, my bad. I was under the impression that all of the new Stones' releases were SACDs.

    It doesn't change the opinion, though, that the vast majority of the new Stones SACDs were for CD play. I guess there's no way to know what the figure is for certain; maybe it's as much as 99%, maybe as little as 98%. [​IMG]

    Rob
     
  20. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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