16 year old killed on motorcycle (1 Viewer)

[Keith Mickunas]

So by going faster than these people that are weaving in and out you'll be safer? No, you'll constantly be moving into people's blind spots as they change lanes ahead of you.

Still, you can make any justification for doing what you do, but I'm guessing you've been riding for more than two weeks. What we do know about this kid is he only had the bike for two weeks, and had been caught driving recklessly a few times already. That's not a good sign. He was driving 100mph in a 25. I've gone 100mph on straight highways before in my car, I admit it. But I did it on highways, where most people were doing 70mph or greater. So the difference between me and the other traffic wasn't 300%.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

So by going faster than these people that are weaving in and out you'll be safer? No, you'll constantly be moving into people's blind spots as they change lanes ahead of you.

Still, you can make any justification for doing what you do, but I'm guessing you've been riding for more than two weeks. What we do know about this kid is he only had the bike for two weeks, and had been caught driving recklessly a few times already. That's not a good sign. He was driving 100mph in a 25. I've gone 100mph on straight highways before in my car, I admit it. But I did it on highways, where most people were doing 70mph or greater. So the difference between me and the other traffic wasn't 300%.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

This is pretty boneheaded. My street's speed limit is 30mph. I don't go that fast. It's too narrow, there are cars on parked on both sides, and you never know when kids are going to come between those parked cars. Anybody that does go over 30mph on this street is being unsafe.

Now there are places where the speed limit is too low. But rarely are streets with 30 and 25mph limits in that group. They have those speed limits for a reason, either because of a traffic, cross streets, businesses, or children in the area. While I'll speed on many roads, ones with that low of a limit are typically unsafe to speed on. And nowhere have I ever seen a road with a 25mph limit where driving 100mph is acceptable.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

This is pretty boneheaded. My street's speed limit is 30mph. I don't go that fast. It's too narrow, there are cars on parked on both sides, and you never know when kids are going to come between those parked cars. Anybody that does go over 30mph on this street is being unsafe.

Now there are places where the speed limit is too low. But rarely are streets with 30 and 25mph limits in that group. They have those speed limits for a reason, either because of a traffic, cross streets, businesses, or children in the area. While I'll speed on many roads, ones with that low of a limit are typically unsafe to speed on. And nowhere have I ever seen a road with a 25mph limit where driving 100mph is acceptable.

 

[Carl Miller]

Getting ahead of the traffic flow is the overall idea, and yes it's dangerous trying to get there. In my opinion, it's less dangerous though than being a sitting duck in a cluster of cars, and at the mercy of the weavers.

I've been riding since I was 15 (I'm 39) and have had two accidents in my years riding. One was getting sideswiped by a weaver in 40 mph traffic who weaved around an SUV I was in front of, and came right into my lane hitting me. The other was getting clipped by a soccer mom driving a Hummer just after a traffic light turned green. Neither were my fault, and I didn't do anything to contribute to either accident.

I wouldn't call what I do a justification however. It's just a survival tactic based on need. I've been doing the same 90 mile commute to work for a long long time and the roads have become noticibly more aggressive, and extremely unsafe in recent years for everyone whether in a car or on a bike.

I agree with you though about this case. It was likely the kids fault and in my opinion there's plenty of blame to go around to the kids parents and the cop who gave him a pass as well.

If he had parents with common sense, he wouldn't have had that bike at all. At worst, his father would have done like my dad did, and taught him to ride and not allowed him to ride alone until he was mature enough to do so.

That cop could very well have saved the kids life had he given him the ticket he deserved. The whole thing is a shame.

And the woman...She is forced to live with this, and even if she did absolutely nothing to contribute to the accident, it may haunt her for a long time to come. And it's all due to the irresponsibility of other people.

 

[Carl Miller]

Getting ahead of the traffic flow is the overall idea, and yes it's dangerous trying to get there. In my opinion, it's less dangerous though than being a sitting duck in a cluster of cars, and at the mercy of the weavers.

I've been riding since I was 15 (I'm 39) and have had two accidents in my years riding. One was getting sideswiped by a weaver in 40 mph traffic who weaved around an SUV I was in front of, and came right into my lane hitting me. The other was getting clipped by a soccer mom driving a Hummer just after a traffic light turned green. Neither were my fault, and I didn't do anything to contribute to either accident.

I wouldn't call what I do a justification however. It's just a survival tactic based on need. I've been doing the same 90 mile commute to work for a long long time and the roads have become noticibly more aggressive, and extremely unsafe in recent years for everyone whether in a car or on a bike.

I agree with you though about this case. It was likely the kids fault and in my opinion there's plenty of blame to go around to the kids parents and the cop who gave him a pass as well.

If he had parents with common sense, he wouldn't have had that bike at all. At worst, his father would have done like my dad did, and taught him to ride and not allowed him to ride alone until he was mature enough to do so.

That cop could very well have saved the kids life had he given him the ticket he deserved. The whole thing is a shame.

And the woman...She is forced to live with this, and even if she did absolutely nothing to contribute to the accident, it may haunt her for a long time to come. And it's all due to the irresponsibility of other people.

 

[MarkHastings]

That's the kind of justification I wish most bikers had. Instead, they just blame all the cars on the road for being "wreckless" and act as if all bikers are so innocent. It's this "Cars are assholes to bikers because they drive like idiots" theory that irks me.

If you gotta drive illegally to protect yourself, that's one thing, but acting like you're so disgusted by other cars because of the way they drive (when you are doing the same kinds of things) is as blindsighted as the way some people drive.

After reading Carls post, something came to mind. I see bikers pull even crazier stunts than cars do when it comes to weaving in and out of traffic. The thing is, the biker will suffer worse consequences by his actions than the cars. So it's this "biker always loses over car" theory that gives cars a bad wrap, when it shouldn't.

It's like not wearing pads and a helmet during a hockey game and expecting the rest of the team to treat you differently because you're unprotected. That's fine if you don't come into contact with the others, but if you decide to (illegally) slash people, then don't get all flustered when you get slashed yourself (which will cause a LOT more damage due to your non-protection).

I understand that cars can be dangerous to bikers by the way some people drive, but motorcycles are dangerous to begin with. Driving in traffic is also a dangerous thing to do, even if you are in a car. Using a motorcycle just makes the danger even greater. We all understand that, yet bikers make it sound like cars give them no respect. The fact is, drivers give other drivers no respect no matter what they are driving. I drive a car and I'm constantly being disrespected. That is why I researched the car that I am driving for the best safety record.

So don't go running through a crowded mall with a fragile vase (expecting people to not get in your way) and then get mad when someone accidentally bumps into you and knocks it out of your hand. Next time, protect the vase as best as you can and walk slower.

 

[MarkHastings]

That's the kind of justification I wish most bikers had. Instead, they just blame all the cars on the road for being "wreckless" and act as if all bikers are so innocent. It's this "Cars are assholes to bikers because they drive like idiots" theory that irks me.

If you gotta drive illegally to protect yourself, that's one thing, but acting like you're so disgusted by other cars because of the way they drive (when you are doing the same kinds of things) is as blindsighted as the way some people drive.

After reading Carls post, something came to mind. I see bikers pull even crazier stunts than cars do when it comes to weaving in and out of traffic. The thing is, the biker will suffer worse consequences by his actions than the cars. So it's this "biker always loses over car" theory that gives cars a bad wrap, when it shouldn't.

It's like not wearing pads and a helmet during a hockey game and expecting the rest of the team to treat you differently because you're unprotected. That's fine if you don't come into contact with the others, but if you decide to (illegally) slash people, then don't get all flustered when you get slashed yourself (which will cause a LOT more damage due to your non-protection).

I understand that cars can be dangerous to bikers by the way some people drive, but motorcycles are dangerous to begin with. Driving in traffic is also a dangerous thing to do, even if you are in a car. Using a motorcycle just makes the danger even greater. We all understand that, yet bikers make it sound like cars give them no respect. The fact is, drivers give other drivers no respect no matter what they are driving. I drive a car and I'm constantly being disrespected. That is why I researched the car that I am driving for the best safety record.

So don't go running through a crowded mall with a fragile vase (expecting people to not get in your way) and then get mad when someone accidentally bumps into you and knocks it out of your hand. Next time, protect the vase as best as you can and walk slower.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Look, saying that most car/motorcycle collisions are the fault of the motorist is not to exhibit "attitude," but is to state a fact. The last time I looked at any statistics on this, I think the number was around 62 percent.

It's so easy for a motorist to say, "I couldn't see him."

What's interesting about that to a motorcyclist is that you can "see" motorcyclists if you are looking for them. An 1800cc Honda GoldWing is pretty hard not to see, given its mass. And since I'm always looking for motorcycles as well as cars, I always see them.

None of this is to say that there are no irresponsible riders. Far from it. One of the reasons I never liked to ride in groups is because a sort of pack mentality develops in such situations, and if the riders are on sportbikes, a group ride tends to turn into a roadrace. (Anyone who has ever traveled SoCal's legendary Mulholland Highway on your way to The Rock Store on a Sunday morning knows how dicey it can get.)

When I was hit on that 750 Honda, a 16-year-old girl who had just gotten her driver's license the previous day made a U-turn in front of me, smashing my leg in between the car's bumper and the bike's cylinder block.

When the leg (with 30-percent permanent disability) healed nearly two years later, I won a hefty lawsuit. Bought a 1975 Kawasaki Z-1 903 with part of the proceeds. Paid off my parents' house. Funded my education. Etc.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Look, saying that most car/motorcycle collisions are the fault of the motorist is not to exhibit "attitude," but is to state a fact. The last time I looked at any statistics on this, I think the number was around 62 percent.

It's so easy for a motorist to say, "I couldn't see him."

What's interesting about that to a motorcyclist is that you can "see" motorcyclists if you are looking for them. An 1800cc Honda GoldWing is pretty hard not to see, given its mass. And since I'm always looking for motorcycles as well as cars, I always see them.

None of this is to say that there are no irresponsible riders. Far from it. One of the reasons I never liked to ride in groups is because a sort of pack mentality develops in such situations, and if the riders are on sportbikes, a group ride tends to turn into a roadrace. (Anyone who has ever traveled SoCal's legendary Mulholland Highway on your way to The Rock Store on a Sunday morning knows how dicey it can get.)

When I was hit on that 750 Honda, a 16-year-old girl who had just gotten her driver's license the previous day made a U-turn in front of me, smashing my leg in between the car's bumper and the bike's cylinder block.

When the leg (with 30-percent permanent disability) healed nearly two years later, I won a hefty lawsuit. Bought a 1975 Kawasaki Z-1 903 with part of the proceeds. Paid off my parents' house. Funded my education. Etc.

 

[Chris Derby]

I agree that 100 in a 25-35 (residential/school area) is excessive. I'd never do that. I was actually referring more to highway speed limits.

BTW, if your street is unsafe to drive at the posted limit, maybe you and your neighbors should petition to have the speed limit lowered or speedbumps installed to lower speeds. There is a neighborhood right behind me that did both (25mph + speedbumps) because one of their main streets was getting heavy usage from "cut-through traffic".

Hey Jack, do you still ride? I used to head up Mulholland all the time until my bike was stolen last year.

 

[Chris Derby]

I agree that 100 in a 25-35 (residential/school area) is excessive. I'd never do that. I was actually referring more to highway speed limits.

BTW, if your street is unsafe to drive at the posted limit, maybe you and your neighbors should petition to have the speed limit lowered or speedbumps installed to lower speeds. There is a neighborhood right behind me that did both (25mph + speedbumps) because one of their main streets was getting heavy usage from "cut-through traffic".

Hey Jack, do you still ride? I used to head up Mulholland all the time until my bike was stolen last year.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

It's also quite often true. I've never hit motorcycle, and I try to pay attention to then when they are around, but it takes more effort to keep an eye on them as they move from mirror to mirror. And if one is coming up behind me wanting to pass, I'll try to get over, and this is where problems can develop. I have to take time to check around me before switching lanes, if the motorcycle is closing faster than I can judge accurately in my mirror, as I'm checking things out he might be approaching and switching lanes to go by me. It can be quite dangerous.

And that is something the motorcyclist has to keep an eye on if he plans to go faster than traffic. He'll be constantly moving into people's blind spots and if they saw him coming they may be moving out of the way and suddenly lose sight of him. It may be the car's fault if a collision occurs, but motorcyclists often make things trickier for cars ahead of them.

Granted there are those other situations where someone just turns right in front of the motorcycle. Those don't always make sense and there's not really any justification for it. About the only thing I could guess is the people are focusing far down the road and just aren't picking up on the smaller object.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

It's also quite often true. I've never hit motorcycle, and I try to pay attention to then when they are around, but it takes more effort to keep an eye on them as they move from mirror to mirror. And if one is coming up behind me wanting to pass, I'll try to get over, and this is where problems can develop. I have to take time to check around me before switching lanes, if the motorcycle is closing faster than I can judge accurately in my mirror, as I'm checking things out he might be approaching and switching lanes to go by me. It can be quite dangerous.

And that is something the motorcyclist has to keep an eye on if he plans to go faster than traffic. He'll be constantly moving into people's blind spots and if they saw him coming they may be moving out of the way and suddenly lose sight of him. It may be the car's fault if a collision occurs, but motorcyclists often make things trickier for cars ahead of them.

Granted there are those other situations where someone just turns right in front of the motorcycle. Those don't always make sense and there's not really any justification for it. About the only thing I could guess is the people are focusing far down the road and just aren't picking up on the smaller object.

 

[Mike Ilano]

This is really sad,and the worst part is it's happening more frequently now too.

This is so true, that's why I find myself riding by myself most of the time.Here in San Diego by Palomar Mt. accidents are frequent since there are times that riding turns into a road race.:frowning:

 

[Mike Ilano]

This is really sad,and the worst part is it's happening more frequently now too.

This is so true, that's why I find myself riding by myself most of the time.Here in San Diego by Palomar Mt. accidents are frequent since there are times that riding turns into a road race.:frowning:

 

[Ken.Nischan]

I'm also voicing some support to the ride-faster-than-traffic ideal. I haven't ridden all that long compared to some people.. about 13 years.. but I sweat bullets when I get surrounded by cars when I'm riding on the highway. I don't trust anyone.

I agree about the pack roadrace thing too, but if you can find mature riders it's quite a boon because whilst a car driver may not see you, it's hard to miss 4+ bikes in formation. I tried to ride to Ocean City with two friends who have Honda sportbikes (600 and 900 some CC) and they soon were going triple digits. My older Magna could keep up, but I prefer to stay alive.

 

[Ken.Nischan]

I'm also voicing some support to the ride-faster-than-traffic ideal. I haven't ridden all that long compared to some people.. about 13 years.. but I sweat bullets when I get surrounded by cars when I'm riding on the highway. I don't trust anyone.

I agree about the pack roadrace thing too, but if you can find mature riders it's quite a boon because whilst a car driver may not see you, it's hard to miss 4+ bikes in formation. I tried to ride to Ocean City with two friends who have Honda sportbikes (600 and 900 some CC) and they soon were going triple digits. My older Magna could keep up, but I prefer to stay alive.

 

[Shawn C]

I generally ride my Rune at a pretty brisk pace when on the highway. It's just too easy to do out here in Vegas. My avg. cruising speed is usually in excess of 75 MPH (which is the speed limit anyways, out in the desert, at least 70 MPH).

Around town, I ride at pretty much the same speeds as the traffic. From my experience riding a motorcycle, I've found that it's good to keep pace with everyone else. Not too fast, not too slow.

By riding like this, I have a better chance of controlling an abrupt stop and lessen my chance of someone tailgating me (but it still happens)

My only weakness is out on the highway in the middle of the desert....

 

[Shawn C]

I generally ride my Rune at a pretty brisk pace when on the highway. It's just too easy to do out here in Vegas. My avg. cruising speed is usually in excess of 75 MPH (which is the speed limit anyways, out in the desert, at least 70 MPH).

Around town, I ride at pretty much the same speeds as the traffic. From my experience riding a motorcycle, I've found that it's good to keep pace with everyone else. Not too fast, not too slow.

By riding like this, I have a better chance of controlling an abrupt stop and lessen my chance of someone tailgating me (but it still happens)

My only weakness is out on the highway in the middle of the desert....