16:9 woes with Momitsu V880 and Sony 30" XBR910

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by justin|, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. justin|

    justin| Auditioning

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    Ok, this is driving me a little nuts. I can't get my v880 player to take advantage of my HD, widescreen set (XBR910) without the image being cropped. I hope someone here can give me a pointer...

    The v880 has settings for "TV Type" (either 4:3 or 16:9) and resolution. Here's what I've tried:

    16:9, 480p or 1080i
    Image fills the entire screen, but top/bottom significantly cropped, i'd guess 10% image loss. [​IMG]

    4:3, 1080i
    image letterboxed, widened to screen edges, out of proportion (everyone's fat)

    4:3, 480p
    "zoomed out", but in correct proportion. The "zoom" mode on the sony fills the screen. With zooming I do see a little bit of cropping, especially on the top/bottom. Setting the sony's "vertical size" to -7 (the max) corrects this.


    So, 4:3/480p has been the best option for me so far, but I'm bummed that I can't watch in 16:9/1080i (the way god intended).

    I've had this problem with every DVD I've tried. In particular I was just testing with criterion's "naked lunch", which I'm pretty sure is "widescreen enhanced".

    Oh, and I'm using a DVI connection. (Don't have any other cables to test with.)

    I'm sure I'm making some newbie mistake, but I couldn't find any HTF posts that sounded like my problem. Help?
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    Well, I would certainly get some components cables and try the analog component video out.
     
  3. SimiA

    SimiA Second Unit

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    As John S said, try component cables.
    With DVI, you loose just about all your adjustments for the screen.
    Also, I suspect that the movies your are watching were shot in 2:35 aspect ratio, hence, the black bars you see. That's normal, and how the picture should be viewed.
    Since you have a zoom feature, you'll be able to fill the screen.
    It will enlarge the picture, get rid of the black bars, but at the expense of PQ.
    Vb
     
  4. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    The correct settings are the DVD player at 16:9 and the TV set to "full". Like SimiA, I suspect the DVD's you are viewing are 2.35:1 aspect ratio. These are wider than your 16:9 screen and will have small black bars at the top and bottom. This is normal (see the explanation in the primer here: If I buy a widescreen tv, will I get rid of the black bars forever? )

    Regardless, the correct setting for your equipment is the following:

    DVD player set to 16:9 output.
    For anamorphic DVD's - TV set to "Full" (2.35:1 films will have black bars on the top and bottom)
    For 4:3 DVD's - TV set to "Normal" (will have black/grey bars on the sides)
    For non-anamorphic widescreen DVD's - TV set to "Zoom" (2.35:1 films will have black bars on the top and bottom)

    The DVD will usually list the anamorphic (enhanced for 16:9 TV's) information on the back. If it does not say, it is probably (but not always) non-anamorphic. Likewise, it will usually list the aspect ratio. Anything that is 1.85:1 should not show black bars. Anything 2.35:1 will. This is normal.
     
  5. justin|

    justin| Auditioning

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    Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

    I did some more reading and some more testing. DVDs in 2.35:1 format work just fine with the player set to output 16:9 at 1080i. The image fills the screen horizontally and has bars on the top and bottom. Perfect. I even naively made some measurements of the image onscreen--the ratio came out to 2.35:1.

    My problem is with 16:9 enhanced (anamorphic) DVDs. With the player set to 16:9 I'm losing about 10% of the image off the top and bottom. So, there aren't any black bars at all, but a significant part of the image is cropped. This happens both in 1080i resolution and in 480p with "full" zoom turned on. [​IMG]

    Is my set having overscan or geometry problems maybe? I can't find any settings on the TV that look like they'd help with this. Maybe I'll go read about the service interface.

    Oh, I also tried using an S-video connection instead of the DVI. Same cropping problem in 16:9 mode. I guess I might pick up some component cables as suggested, and see if that makes a difference, but I'm doubtful it would.

    Thanks again.


    (One more weird thing: when I use any of the zoom modes at all, I'm losing about 2% of the image off the right side of the screen. Oddly, on the left side, I see a sliver of image that's not visible when zoom is off. It's almost like the image shifts to the right a little when zoom is on. Weird.)
     
  6. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    This is most likely overscan and at %2 it is well within reasonable.
     
  7. justin|

    justin| Auditioning

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    Thanks Jeff!



    Yep, I'm using "full". The other two are "zoom" and "wide zoom", which definitely don't produce a good image. I should point out that these modes aren't available with "HD resolutions". So, when set to 1080i the image shape is identical to how it is with 480p/full.

    I'm thinking about picking up DVE or Avia to help diagnose.
     
  8. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    There is no difference in the way your TV or DVD renders 2.35:1 vs. 1.85:1 DVD's. If both are anamorphic and both are being displayed using 16:9 and "Full", there is no way one should display 10% cropping and the other not. A TV or DVD sees no difference between the two, because essentially a 2.35:1 film just has black bars where the 1.85:1 has picture. Both are 480 lines of resolution and both are equal in the 16:9 frame, it's just that in the case of 2.35:1 some of those lines (i.e. content on the disk), and hence some of the frame, contain the black bars.

    Some questions - How exactly are you measuring the "10% cropping" if you cannot get it to display correctly? Could it be less and just a case of overscan?
     
  9. justin|

    justin| Auditioning

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    Yeah, it really doesn't make much sense.

    I got the number 10% by eyeball comparison of the pictureboxed image displayed in 4:3 mode with the full image I get in 16:9. I don't have a test disc, so i just now got out the tape measure, found a 1.85:1 scene with good landmarks, did a little A/B, and measured that I'm losing 3.5cm off of the 30.75cm-high 4:3 image. That comes out to 11.4% cropping. It's really quite noticeable.

    Is it possible I've got a jacked up vertical overscan? If I did, wouldn't 2.35:1 DVDs be displayed out of proportion too? I measured a 2.35:1 image on screen and the AR was right on. I guess the overscan could be off equally in both dimensions. But I'm not seeing 11.4% horizontal cropping (relative to the 4:3 image)...

    Confused.
     

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