16:9 DLP Projector questions / comparisons (1 Viewer)

[John-Tanner]

I am trying to choose between the 16:9, 720 x 1280 DLP projectors that have the new TI HD2 chip. I think the ones on the market that I have seen include the Toshiba TDP-MT8 (which I believe is exactly the same as the InFocus ScreenPlay 7200) and the the Sharp XV-Z10000U. I'm also considering the Marantz VP-12S2, and the Yamaha DPX-1000. Since none of the video stores around here (Dallas) seem to have any two of these running at the same time, I have not been able to do any direct comparisons. My initial reaction is that the Sharp seems to be the least sharp (focus that is). Any opinions out there? How do the internal scalers compare?

Another question - I've been under the impression that the best setup is to position the projector so that it is not necessary to use the digital keystone correction. My understanding is that this correction requires some resampling of the image, and results in some loss of resolution due to pixel averaging or whatever. All of the above units that I have seen mount so that the optics are perpendicular to the screen, usually at the top or bottom edge of the screen, and have no keystone to correct. If mounted in another position, the correction may be necessary. Then I saw the Toshiba, which was mounted at an angle to the screen, and according to the salesman, was using its digital keystone correction. The image looked very impressive. Am I off base with this?

 

[Neil Joseph]

It is best to mount the projector to the screen so that no keystoning or lateral shift is needed. In my case this was not possible (12' ceiling with a 6' pole would not satisfy spouse approval). Mind you, it still looks spectacular but keystoning may also slightly mess up the aspect ratio of the image.

 

[John-Tanner]

Thanks, that's what I thought. It would be a shame to pay this much for a projector and then compromise on the setup. Any idea if the Toshiba is different in its ability to adjust the optics compared to the other units? I don't know why the store setup would require using keystone correction on this unit if it weren't necessary.

 

[Doug_B]

With the Infocus SP 7200 (and thus I suspect the MT8 as well), there is no vertical lens shift. This is likely why the setup you saw had dig keystoning.

In more detail, the top of the screen for a 7200 ceiling mount will be a fixed distance below the center of the lens, calculated as a function of the screen height. Specifically, about .163 times the screen height will give you the fixed vertical offset from lens center to top of screen (again, for a ceiling mount; the reverse for a table mount). Add this result to the height from ceiling to lens center (about 5.25" using Infocus mount with no extension bar), and you will have the distance from ceiling to top of viewable portion of screen.

If you're flexible with the screen dimensions, note that the 7200 does have a zoom lens that allows (if memory serves) a distance from lens to screen of about 1.5x screen width to 2.08x screen width. It's usually best to be at the maximum distance from a pq perspective so that you avoid using the periphery of the lens. So if you have mounting issues with a given screen height due to the fixed vertical offset, maybe a different screen height will be better, taking into account the proj-screen distance relationship.

By now you may have guessed that I own a 7200 . I have had it for a few weeks but have not used it much, as I just got my screen the other night (Firehawk 92" diag) and have not calibrated yet. However, it is a fairly bright projector (as DLPs go), and the color, brightness, etc. settings look great out of the box. I have not done comparisons with other HD2 DLPs (as I just couldn't wait any longer), but I do like the 7200 better than both the Sharp 9000 and Marantz S1 units that I had previously seen (but these were HD1 DLPs). The word is that both the Sharp and Marantz HD2 units have improved compared to their predecessors, so the new models may have advantages over the 7200. Price is not one of them, however (although the Sharp 10000 may come close).

If you're interested in some more 7200 details, let me know.

Doug

 

[John-Tanner]

Good input, Doug. It's great to find someone who actually owns one of these, so I don't have to get all my information from salesmen. So, a couple more questions.

I noticed that the Toshiba unit is considerably smaller than the Sharp or Marantz. Does that result in any audible noise problems? I think the other units have a sound buffer.

I was thinking about getting the Grayhawk screen (0.95 gain) rather than the Firehawk. That's based on about a 100 inch diagonal and a very dark room. But I really don't know how to make that choice. How did you decide?

Have you formed an opinion of the Toshiba internal video processing (scaler) yet, or do you use an external one?

Were you able to get a discount off of the MSRP - about $10000 I think?

 

[DanH]

I've seen the 7200 on both the Grayhawk and Firehawk. Trust me, you want the Firehawk. The ambient rejection is fantastic and the screen enhances CR on a brigher projector quite noticeably. I just changed my Grayhawk to a Firehawk with a 2000+ lumen LCD and the enhancement of black and contrast was stunning.

The 7200 is a bit noisier than some of the much pricier competition, no question. If you are super sensitive to this, you may want to take it into account in your design or opt for another projector such as the DWIN.

Suggest you visit AVS Forum (www.avsforum.com), the over $5K digital projector thread, where this projector and its competitors have been discussed in detail.

Dan

 

[Doug_B]

Biff,

My answers are based on the Infocus unit, so to the extent that the Toshiba is the same (and it should be at least hardware-wise), my answers should apply equally.

Were you able to get a discount off of the MSRP - about $10000 I think?

I was able to get what I consider a reasonable discount on my Infocus. I have heard that discounts greater than 20% are not uncommon. Haven't heard anything about the Toshiba unit.

I don't think you'll likely go wrong from a pq perspective with any of the HD2 units. I would think all of them have good enough deinterlacing and scaling functions internally to work great with DVD and better material (when such functions are needed) so that an external processor would be unnecessary. The decision will likely need to be made from a features and logistics perspective, such as which dealers have which projs, pricing distinctions, mounting and location considerations (such as throw length options, vertical offset), etc. If you have access to demo a few of them, you may catch certain picture quality distinctions, such as brightness, contrast ratio, black level, and color accuracy, that may also sway you.

Good luck.

Doug

 

[Roger Mathus]

In December, I was able to do direct comparisons in same room of the Marantz, Sharp and Yamaha referenced models. The demo room had screens on three walls and they could drop either grey or white screens. I also attended a factory demo lecture at another store for the Marantz.

The Sharp and Yamaha models appeared brigher than the Marantz but I was most impressed by the fine detail and rendition of the Marantz as well as its quiet operation.

I have now relocated to the USA from Japan and have just purchased the Marantz VP-12S2 and Stewart Firehawk screen.

 

[John-Tanner]

Doug,
After you've lived with your projector / screen for a while, I would be very interested in your longer term observations.

 

[Hakan Powers]

3 weeks since Johns latets post.. how are things going with PJ Doug?

I'm looking at purchasing a Toshiba MT8 within a couple of weeks so all input is interesting!

 

[John-Tanner]

Hello Doug?
I'm getting very close to purchasing the Infocus SP7200, but I'm concerned by your lack of a reply after additional time spent with your machine. Is it because you are no longer pleased with your purchase, or is it just so good you don't have time to spend on the forum anymore?

 

[John-Tanner]

Doug,
Just saw your comments on another thread (copied below)...Great news! I'm going to do some shopping tomorrow. Can't wait!

Biff
__________________________________________________ __

Doug's comments:
My first foray into a Home Theater quality video display, I purchased the Infocus SP 7200 DLP projector in December. I finally got my Firehawk screen last month and now have a complete HT setup. I have posted some photos on the web; see my sig.

I am very happy with my 7200, but given that I'm not a video aficionado and graduated from a 35" SDTV, I didn't expect to be anything less than thrilled (being more audio-inclined, I'm happy to be rid of the big box between my mains). Although I have not seen any other HD2-based projectors, I did see a couple of HD1s, and the 7200 is noticeably better (e.g., color, depth). I suspect that most folks would be very happy with any of the HD2 projectors from a picture quality perspective.

BTW, I have no problems with rainbows, headaches, etc. due to DLP, at least the ones I have seen.

Doug

 

[Dave Moritz]

I am hoping to start searching for some HT shops in the So Cal area that carry dlp projectors. I too also was wondering what projector would be best for the money. I was at the CES show this past January in Vegas. I saw the Yamaha, Toshiba and a few other brands. In the 10k range IMHO the Toshiba with the faroudja chip was the best looking in MHO. Even with some lights on in the demo room the picture did not suffer. Almost everyone else that was running a projection demo made sure the lights where off. Not to say the none of the other projectors did not do a good job as well. But for the a lower budget projector that is compatible with HDTV. I guess my question is for a max of 4k is the Piano projector the best bet and the best performing in the budget area? The goal is to have the best picture for the money and something that can at least handle a 110" diag. screen. My goal screen wise is to have a min. of 86" - at least 110" screen size. I watch mostly movies but ocationally would watch a sporting even when friends are invited over. Mostly 98% movies on this system for sure though. What are your thoughts?

 

[Doug_B]

Biff,

I'm getting very close to purchasing the Infocus SP7200, but I'm concerned by your lack of a reply after additional time spent with your machine. Is it because you are no longer pleased with your purchase, or is it just so good you don't have time to spend on the forum anymore?

To tell you the truth, I haven't watched a lot of stuff on the pj in the last few weeks. I am not watching as many movies as I'd like late at night because I have the urge to crank it up but don't want to wake the house. So instead, I listen to tunes (which don't have earth shaking bass, so I can get away with it ).

As I mentioned in the other thread, I am happy with the purchase. Damn, the really good transfers sure do shine. I was amazed at how good Star Wars AOTC looked. I am no longer so envious of that big-a** Sony CRT (G90?) I saw playing AOTC just before purchasing the 7200. Also, the 7200 does do quite well with interlaced signals; that's how my Panny RP91 is set up.

I do recommend a look for yourself. Do make sure you don't have any of the reported visual problems with DLP. Besides PQ, check some of the environmental issues. The 7200 is not the quietest pj. However, I sit directly below it (8' high ceiling) and don't notice it while watching stuff, unless I conciously try to listen to it (which doesn't happen with a good movie). Also, one may notice light spill from it, mostly from the lens itself sprayed out in front a bit and to the sides farther away. Again, most of what's visible to me is on the ceiling within a couple of feet in front of the pj, so I only see it if I look up instead of at the screen. This is something I never even looked for when demoing pjs. Your seating arrangement may be different, though. Color schemes in the room probably play a role in the visual result as well.

As for the Firehawk, I really do like it. I was worried that it would be too bright with the 7200, but it isn't. Simply brings the picture out more than the Grayhawk, IMO. Although ambient light rejection appears good, there is still a PQ compromise in having light in the room other than from the pj. Seeing the walls and other objects due to other sources of light lessens the perceived image quality, at least from what I've noticed. Not a big difference, but noticeable nevertheless.

Hope it works out for you.

Doug

 

[John-Tanner]

Doug,
Thanks for the reply. I found a local dealer who had the Toshiba MT8 and checked out the noise and the light leak. I don't think these will be a problem. Also, I haven't seen any rainbows from the 6 segment color wheel projectors.

Dave,
I don't have any experience with the Piano, but there is a lot of informaiton in this forum as well as AVS forum: AVS under $5000 Digital Projectors[/url]