Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) (1 Viewer)

[RobertR]

Not to mention that if they weren't at least partially undone by thinking that nothing could touch them, how else did two guys manage to kill nearly all of a group that was large enough to be considered "the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic"?

I seem to remember quite a few stromtroopers being involved.

 

[TravisR]

I seem to remember quite a few stromtroopers being involved.

But that brings elements from the prequels into it and I thought you were looking at it from the perspective of the OT only.

 

[RobertR]

But that brings elements from the prequels into it and I thought you were looking at it from the perspective of the OT only.

I'm comparing what was done and said in the OT to what was done and said in the prequels. No one in the OT said it only took two guys to kill all the Jedi.

 

[Simon Massey]

Lucas may have made a story choice to make the Jedi arrogant and clueless as to what was going on, but it doesn't exactly endear the characters to the audience as much. That said I think the intent was to personify all that was good about the Jedi largely in Qui Gon and later Obi Wan as well as to an extend Yoda, rather than the Jedi as a whole and in that he largely succeeded. He may well have been better having Qui Gon stick around for another episode or make Obi Wan the noblest character from the start.

I also think the decision to start Episode I with Anakin as a child was the wrong one. The sole reason for doing it was again a single story point about Anakin leaving his mother and we really needed a film to make Anakin as a de facto hero, likeable and relatable as possible to the audience from the beginning. He really needed a sense of humour. In many ways, Anakin should have been like Han Solo as a Jedi to get the audience on his side from the start. A change of actor makes that very difficult as well. Again I get the story point Lucas was going for in AOTC as to why Anakin was the way he was as a Padawan, but like the Jedi it doesn't make him very endearing to the audience and it makes his eventual turn have far less emotional impact. ROTS has a lot of good stuff that sells this far better but it needed more of this in the two films before. It is impressive how much the Clone Wars animated series did much to improve Anakin as a character, but it really needed to be in the first two films as well.

I like the prequels and enjoy them when I decided to have a SW marathon every now and then, but they definitely have a lot of flaws and that is a shame.

 

[TravisR]

No one in the OT said it only took two guys to kill all the Jedi.

No but going solely off the OT, Obi-Wan said that the Jedi "were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times. Before the Empire" so Imperial stormtroopers wouldn't have existed before the end of the Jedi. At that point, the only other people mentioned as being involved are Darth Vader and the Emperor.

 

[RobertR]

No but going solely off the OT, Obi-Wan said that the Jedi "were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times. Before the Empire" so Imperial stormtroopers wouldn't have existed before the end of the Jedi. At that point, the only other people mentioned as being involved are Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Quote from the original movie:

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force."

This makes it quite clear that it was the Empire, and not just two guys, that hunted down and destroyed the Jedi knights.

And from Star Wars wiki:

Order 66, also known as Clone Protocol 66, was one of a series of contingency orders that the clone troopers of the Grand Army of the Republic were trained to obey without hesitation. The order branded members of the Jedi Order as traitors to the Republic and called for their immediate execution without question or hesitation. The issuing of the order by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine marked the formal beginning of the Great Jedi Purge, and signified the rise of the Galactic Empire. It was chief among the atrocities that led to the Galactic Civil War.
Almost all of the Jedi were killed by Order 66, and most of the survivors were killed in the Great Jedi Purge that followed.

This wiki quote is in perfect agreement with the quote from the original movie. It was the clone troopers (even though they may not have had the designation "stormtroopers" yet) that killed almost all of the Jedi, not just two guys.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

It's not as if Jake Lloyd (or Hayden Christensen, or anyone else for that matter), mangled the beautiful Shakespearean text that they were handed.

In Jake, Hayden, and Natalie's defense, the dialogue sounded MUCH better in the original Klingon.

 

[Jari K]

Casting was far from perfect with these films. Mediocre actors (Christensen) or just actors in the wrong film (McGregor etc). I personally can't remember any "great acting" in this trilogy.

 

[RobertR]

Casting was far from perfect with these films. Mediocre actors (Christensen) or just actors in the wrong film (McGregor etc). I personally can't remember any "great acting" in this trilogy.

It didn't help that the writing was awful, and the director was completely disinterested in (or had no idea how to go about) getting good performances.

 

[TravisR]

Quote from the original movie:

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force."

This makes it quite clear that it was the Empire, and not just two guys, that hunted down and destroyed the Jedi knights.

You're absolutely correct and I'm a dope for forgetting that line. Although I would still argue that if the Republic that the Jedi were guardians of ended and the Empire came into power on their watch and killed them, the Jedi must have made some catastrophic errors and not been at the top of their game to let that happen.

This is certainly an interpretation but prior to the prequels, I never really considered Stormtroopers as having had much part in killing the Jedi because based on the OT, the average Stormtrooper- even in larger numbers- doesn't seem like much of a challenge for a Jedi on, say, Luke's skill level. Aside from shooting a pair of aged moisture farmers on Tatooine, stormtroopers seem to have trouble hitting the broadside of a barn.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Casting was far from perfect with these films. Mediocre actors (Christensen) or just actors in the wrong film (McGregor etc). I personally can't remember any "great acting" in this trilogy.

McGregor was perfectly cast and was very good in his role, i think Haley Joel Osment would have made a much better Anakin in The Phantom Menace, you can see from his acting in A.I. how his performance would have been a huge improvement, he plays troubled well and his acting would have been more subtle and less annoying kid at times.

They needed to make four films, not just three, but that would have meant changing A New Hope to episode 5 and Empire to episode 6, well why not, he already tinkered with them and added bits so changing the episodes around wouldn't matter much, i just think we needed to see more of the clone wars, a whole film rather than just the beginning and the end, i would also have enjoyed Liam Neeson and Darth Maul being around for a bit longer but the way it ended was strong and logical.

That duel in the first film is fabulous, love John Williams music, i still don't get the hate some have for the prequels.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Aside from shooting a pair of aged moisture farmers on Tatooine, stormtroopers seem to have trouble hitting the broadside of a barn.

Yes, that recalls one of my favorite inconsistencies in Star Wars: A New Hope.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "And these blast points; too accurate for Sand People. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." And yet, not so much through the rest of the tale.

- Walter.

 

[RobertR]

I never really considered Stormtroopers as having had much part in killing the Jedi because based on the OT, the average Stormtrooper- even in larger numbers- doesn't seem like much of a challenge for a Jedi on, say, Luke's skill level. Aside from shooting a pair of aged moisture farmers on Tatooine, stormtroopers seem to have trouble hitting the broadside of a barn.

Well, that's always the way it works in movies. The bad guy troops are deadly dangerous until they confront the hero(es). Then they can't shoot straight. Walter showed a good example.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I'll jump on the McGregor defense train as well. He deserved better scripts and characterization. Ewan absolutely brought it to his three films, and was remarkably good in RotS. Pet peeve moment: It may have helped if the two lead characters for the trilogy shared more than 20 seconds of screen time in the first film. More time was spent on Jar Jar pratfalls and big fish in the "core" of Naboo than was spent on Obi Wan and Anakin. Their scene together was actually part of the teaser...like all of it was in the teaser. So, at the end, what was the point of the film at the endgame? And frankly, splitting them up for the middle hour plus of AOTC also sucked.Anyways, Ewan was great, and I could absolutely muster interest in an Obi Wan film or two starring McGregor. I've got a lot of beefs with the prequels (any regular here could tell you that in exhaustive, irritated detail). But not with his performances.

 

[SilverWook]

Ewan deserves a lot of credit for somehow channeling Alec Guinness, yet making the part his own. In spite of all the ways the prequels fell short, I always believed I was seeing a younger Obi Wan.

 

[dpippel]

I agree about McGregor. The prequels had all SORTS of problems, but he wasn't one of them.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Although I would still argue that if the Republic that the Jedi were guardians of ended and the Empire came into power on their watch and killed them, the Jedi must have made some catastrophic errors and not been at the top of their game to let that happen.

Well, duh, they let Qui-Gonn take on Anakin as an apprentice even though he was way too old!

(Pay no attention to the Luke in the corner. . .)

 

[Bryan Ri]

I'll jump on the McGregor defense train as well. He deserved better scripts and characterization. Ewan absolutely brought it to his three films, and was remarkably good in RotS.Pet peeve moment: It may have helped if the two lead characters for the trilogy shared more than 20 seconds of screen time in the first film. More time was spent on Jar Jar pratfalls and big fish in the "core" of Naboo than was spent on Obi Wan and Anakin. Their scene together was actually part of the teaser...like all of it was in the teaser. So, at the end, what was the point of the film at the endgame? And frankly, splitting them up for the middle hour plus of AOTC also sucked.Anyways, Ewan was great, and I could absolutely muster interest in an Obi Wan film or two starring McGregor. I've got a lot of beefs with the prequels (any regular here could tell you that in exhaustive, irritated detail). But not with his performances.

I think you bring up a valid point with the lack of relationship building between Obi-Want and Anakin in TPM. I honestly think the biggest thing missing from the prequels was the lack of a consistent, visible (to the characters) villain. It would have been a nice focal point throughout the three movies.

That said, I did not mind the splitting up of Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC. As a matter of fact, I don't agree with a lot of the hatred that goes towards that particular Star Wars film. I liked the pacing, the way the plot unfolded as Obi-Wan conducted his investigation, etc. I recently watched this and TPM, and while there are flaws, to me they are still very entertaining movies.

 

[Jari K]

Now don't get me wrong. McGregor didn't suck in the film. I just felt that at the time he wasn't that natural in front of the green screen. I believe McGregor himself called the film "flat". And IMO he's right. Not horrible, not disaster.. Just a bit flat and lifeless.

 

[dpippel]

IMO the fact that the film is flat and lifeless lies squarely on Lucas' shoulders. At one point in time he was a pretty good director. That skill had been purged from his body by the time he started work on the prequels.