10" Titanic kit - Early Impressions

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ColinM, Aug 26, 2002.

  1. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    Since I don't see any outright reviews for this product, I'll take a shot.

    I've been looking for something with a higher SAF than the 20*39 I used to have (*sniff*) with a bias toward music performance at 70 - 90db vs. all-out HT slam. After nearly buying a Rava (2 week wait, $424 shipped) I decided to win an auction for a Vance 10" kit from PE on Ebay ($314 shipped, won on Wednesday, rec'd on Friday).

    As soon as I could, I began unpacking it. I wasn't too happy about the finish applied to the box - kind of a rough textured black finish, not unlike a spray-on bedliner. Nasty, but I got over it. The cabinet's a good 3/4" thick with one horizontal brace running thru the middle. A knock on the side is nice and dead, but the top resonates quite a bit.

    The first thing I did (and was supposed to do, according to the manual) was try to install the t-nuts for the feet. After some struggle to get the nut to bite, I discovered that there were already 4 nuts installed, but not mentioned in the manual. They need to update that...

    Next, I drilled 1/8" holes for the plate amp. But where are the 8 included screws??? Not until I finished assembly and went to plug it in did I find them, in the plastic bag with the amp's power cord. Who'd have thought they would be in there? Not me...Anyway, 1/8" holes may be a bit big. The screws I had on hand were a good bit coarser thread than the ones supplied, and I'm not the most confident about the bite they have, so I didn't crank big time on them, lest I strip the holes.

    On to the foam. You get about 1.5 times the foam you need, and it cuts well enough to line the top and sides very easily. (I later removed this and replaced it with 20 oz. of polyfill.)

    There are 8 holes with t-nuts for the driver, not 4 like in the pics at the PE site. That driver is something else. Looks almost alien. Installation went off without a hitch, just screw it in and take care to evenly torque all the bolts the same.

    Upon burning it in, two things became apparent -

    1. The spikes make a ton of noise as they chatter on my concrete-covered-with-carpet basement floor. I pulled the tips off of the cones rather than use the discs, as the discs are tiny and useless on carpet.

    2. The top of the cabinet flexes quite a bit under a heavy load. Adding a good 30 lbs or so to the top of the cabinet made a very noticeable difference in the sound, but this was with test tones at 85db, not program material. Still, I'll build a better cabinet with a nicer finish when I have the time and patience.

    When first listening, I knew it had to break in, and I was always thinking about the foam. I shot over to Walmart and got the $2.50 bag of Poly. After stuffing, I couldn't get one of the bolts to re-install. Perhaps the t-nut came out? So 7 of 8 bolts now hold in the driver. Doesn't seem to leak, but...

    It sounded better with the Poly, somewhat deeper according to the RS meter. Music and movies are both great so far, but I'm not getting to picky until at least a month goes by so that the woof can get broken in. So far, though, it passes the THX ball test, along with the usual list of test scenes very well. I'd say about 85% of what I had with the SVS at the limits of it's ability, and below that it doesn't seem to lack anything at all except extension.

    I am able to get -3 db or so down to 24hz in my room, with eq cutting 6 bands anywhere from 0 to -11db, and the built in 6db boost at 30hz from the amp. I may disable that and use the eq upstream.


    Sorry for being so long here, but I feel like I should speak up due to the lack of reviews here.


    Or maybe nobody buys these??

    Line item cost of the parts =

    Amp $120
    10" Titanic $140
    Spikes $20
    Foam $6

    = $286, not including the cabinet.

    A deal for $314 shipped, even if the cab is to be discarded later. Performance will only improve, I believe.

    I almost wish I'd have just gotten the Rava, but just barely.
     
  2. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Yes it unfortuant that more that own this sub kit, and they are out their, don't give their take on it...
    Yeh I agree that the poly was a better way to go, esecialy with you having an eq or pari-eq in line. Will help the driver see more volume and ths should add a little extension. Seems you measurments bear this out. Considering it's a 10" driver, a small cabinet, and then the afforable cost involved, a good deal I would say.
    And 3db down a 24hz ain't nothing to sneezz at...[​IMG]
    Maybe add a couple 1 1/2" hardwood dowels from top to bottom to help with the vibes. Won,t cost squat, and take no time to install. Cut for pressure fit add glue, finished.
    Glad you got some bass again, though loosing that SVS extension for movies dose gota hurt.....
    Regards
    Geoff
     
  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Thanks for the review, was looking at this sub for another system. My concern was with the enclosure, because the construction doesn't look top notch, but what can you expect for that price? I figured I'd have to do a little work on the cabinet, but as mentioned, it wouldn't cost a lot. Dowels or even another similar brace along the resonant side.

    I don't care much what it looks like...

    I was a little skeptical of the 24Hz claim, even when room loaded, but the fact that you were able to get it is a good indicator.

    Why pull the tips off the spikes at all? I just let mine sit right on the carpet.
     
  4. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    The threaded holes go all the way through, so I siliconed the cones in the first place to be air tight. But yeah, I'd let it rest right on the carpet, too.

    I looked at the models with WinISD, and was scared a bit by the roll-off, but it measures great and sounds really good so far...
     
  5. KirkA

    KirkA Agent

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    Thanks for the review. I've been looking at the Rava vs the Titanic kit too. It will probably be a month or two until I get one but the Rava seems like the way to go for $50 more. You can get it with a gloss black finish plus it comes already put together. I've also thought about getting a box from acoustic-visions.com and adding a sub and amp later.

    Not a bad deal for $314 shipped. Not a great deal at $349 +shipping.
     
  6. GarySI

    GarySI Stunt Coordinator

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    As I stated in another thread I have the Dayton and I am pleased as a pig in ___ with it. I, too went with poly and I also placed a piece of granite on the top.(Looks good too.) I was more impressed with it's handling of music transients. Very fast indeed, and with a great kick. I tested it with the first Flim and the BB's CD from Tom Jung's DMP label. The kick drum was in my face but it was the way it handled the bass lines that impressed me. Glad I bought it and definitely reccomend it.
     
  7. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    Bottomed out today.

    Matrix, knee thru the floor, -8db from ref., sub even with the other channels but eq'd with a house curve to 31.5, -2 on the meter at 25, and hi-passed at 23.

    I have a feeling it may have a small leak. A t-nut came out of one of the driver mounting holes earlier, so I pulled and repaired it, and added silicone to the opening.

    I will also take out the sub's eq boost and run it w/o eq to get a feel for it. I estimate it peaked at 100-103db, not sure about the freq.

    Not as happy as I once was.
     
  8. Rich_Ave

    Rich_Ave Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Colin,

    I also had a problem with the Titanic "bottoming out". I am new to the speaker building process, so please take my comments for what they are worth (probably not much). I ran several measurements using a sine wave CD and a Radio Shack analog SPL meter. My crude measurements pointed to a problem from around 28 to 48 hertz. I took a look at Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook (6th edition)and noted that the max cone excursion of the Titanic sub lined up with where my Titanic seem to be bottoming out. I then looked at the typical max SPL that the book mentioned, and my crude measurements lined up with that as well. Based on my experience, it appeared that the Titanic was working as designed. My next thought was my room size. My room is about 3100 cubic feet, which I figured was a medium size room. After some digging around, I guess it was considered a large room. It takes some pretty hefty air movement for this size room, and I'm afraid a 10" sub isn't quite enough. I'm adding a 12 inch sub to complement the Titanic. Sorry for being long winded. Good Luck.

    Rich
     
  9. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Colin and Rich,

    The built-in boost on the amp may possibly be responsible for your sub bottoming out. You might want to modify it down the road.

    Brian
     
  10. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    Big time...Where's that iron??
     
  11. Steve-sas

    Steve-sas Agent

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    I have this sub also and the only time it bottomed out was on the opening scene of Atlantis. I have since tweeked it a little and have it sounding pretty good with no more problems. For those of you who used the poly. Did you remove the foam before filling with the poly (or did you ever put the foam in?)? Did you leave it loose or did you glue it in? How much did you use?

    As i said I am pretty pleased with this sub but I would like to tighten it up a liitle more for music and I think the poly would help.
     
  12. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    I removed the foam, and packed in a 20 oz. bag. No need for glue.

    I also pulled the rubber ring off of the frame, since the screws were eating into it and violating the threads. I used a thin bead of silicone to seal it.
     
  13. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Colin,
    You may never get that driver out again! [​IMG] In the future, just use foam weather stripping.
    Brian
     
  14. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. Rich_Ave

    Rich_Ave Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian,
    Thanks for the info. I was debating between just removing the 30 Hz boost, or getting a Behringer Feedback Destroyer and working on the overall response. Any recommendations? I'm still in the process of putting the rest of the system together, so I don't have anything calibrated just yet(other than a crude SPL measurement), so I know I have some work to do. I also have not done anything to manage the so called double bass problem on my Rotel 1066, so I certainly have a lot to play with before I consider everything tweaked.

    Steve, Colin,
    I used the standard egg crate foam that came with the Titanic. I used a spray on adhesive to get it to stick to the sides of the cabinet. Did you by chance try both the foam and the poly? Which one did you prefer?

    Rich
     
  16. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Rich,

    I'd remove the boost first or alter it to something a bit less "aggressive" and then see how the response "looks". Then go with a BFD from there if you want to tweak further.

    Brian
     
  17. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    The foam by itself seemed to be "honky" and resonated. Of course, this is possibly the unbraced cabinet top lending it's own voice, I guess. I didn't measure response curves with poly vs foam to compare. I was going to put poly in no matter what, anyway, and I feel it is not hollow sounding anymore, more plump and tight.
    I didn't glue the foam in, it wedged in just fine. I cut it into panels and fit it nicely around the brace.
    For the amp mod, I hope THIS solder is ok...
     
  18. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Colin,

    It should be fine. In fact, it's probably overkill for replacing two resistors on an amp. I use some silver solder I've bought from radio shack in the past for assembling crossovers but wouldn't necessarily buy it specifically for your purpose.

    Brian
     
  19. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    I've had the same tube for years.

    Old R/C racer here....
     
  20. Rich_Ave

    Rich_Ave Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian,
    I picked up a Behringer "Shark" preamp (DSP110) for use with True Audio's Real Time Analyzer software. I haven't fired it up yet, but it appears to have some filtering capability,which they also call a feedback destroyer. Before I open up the Titanic to modify the bass boost, I thought I'd play a little with the Shark.

    Colin,
    It sounds like you had pretty good results with the poly. When I modify the boost, I'll probably add some poly. I'm guessing that the fabric store variety will be OK for this application. I don't think I need to bother with the "Acousta-stuff", is that what you used. Sorry for all the questions, but speaker building is new to me. Thanks.

    Rich
     

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