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"1.0 Mono"-audio & receivers (in my case Yamaha v1800) (1 Viewer)

Jari K

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I´ve one question. I recently got my new Yamaha v1800 A/V-receiver and today I watched my first two "Mono"-films with it. Since both were "classics" from Warner (SD DVD), the audio was "1.0 Mono".

Now, my I chose "Straight"-mode from my receiver, which means that the audio track is played "unprocessed". So the audio plays like it´s on the disc (which is the way I usually like it).

To my slight surprise, the audio was played as "2.0 mono", from both "front left" and "front right" speakers (not only from the "front center", like "1.0 mono" should play for the purists like me.. ;) ).

I also tried "Pro Logic" (which also should play the *Mono*-sound from the "front center" only - at least in my old Yamaha-receiver), but same thing.

Sure, playing "1.0 mono" as "2.0 mono" is certainly not the end of the world (I do that from time-to-time), but I assume, that I should be able to listen the Mono-track from that "front center only", if I choose to do that.

Am I missing something here? With my old receiver, I just chose "Pro Logic" (Mono-audio from the "front center only") or "Stereo" (Mono-audio from the "front left" and "front right" channels).

(ps. Receiver has also "Mono"-sound field program, but it just creates some phony "echo" and sounded quite bad for my ears.. So that´s not the "answer").

Thank you.
 

CraigF

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I can't help you, can only say that all 1.0 tracks also play through my AVR as 2.0 mono. Never just through the center channel. Was the same with my previous AVR, and my one that's over 10 years old too.

This shouldn't be a problem, dual mono, just doubled volume/sound source...shouldn't really sound much different, they had more than one mono speaker in the theaters back in the day...pretend you had a great seat and big ears... :)

I don't know how you can get around this as most AVRs don't let you "erase" the front speakers. If you want to be fussy, you could set a 5/7 channel stereo mode and set the channel levels for the fronts and backs at their lowest and the center at its highest...adjust resulting volume level to suit...
 

Jari K

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First off, thank you for your comments in this thread and also with my earlier one about the "volume level" ( http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...l-coaxial.html ). Much appreciated, especially when my "issues" are more like minor stuff I guess. :)

Well, I did more testing, now with the SD DVD that had two "2.0 mono"-tracks (=2.0 mono is the choice of most cases, only companies like "Warner" and "Criterion" are really using "1.0 mono" - not that this "1.0 vs 2.0" really matters that much).

Well, with "Straight"-mode from my receiver, it plays the "2.0 mono"-track like it did with "1.0 mono"; from both "front left" and "front right" channels. Since the track is "2.0", nothing surprising on this one.

But - now with "Pro logic" from my receiver, it plays the "2.0 mono"-track ONLY from the "front center"-channel, like it basically should be from the "purists' point of view". This is how all (1.0 or 2.0) Mono-tracks behaved with my old, non-HDMI Yamaha AVR (=I used "Pro Logic", IF I wanted the Mono-sound only from the "front center").

This is a minor issue, sure, but I find it slightly confusing that I can get "2.0 mono" from that "front center only" (IF I want, that´s), but not "1.0 mono"-tracks.. Further more, if some DVD has "1.0 mono" added to the disc and my receiver clearly shows "only front center"-channel light lit, I find it strange, that it then "forces" it to "2.0 mono", even with this "straight"-mode..

I guess I could try to contact Yamaha..
 

CraigF

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Jari: no, thank *you* for your Rewind-DVDcompare site!

Could you give me an example of a Warner (say) disc with 1.0 mono, perhaps from the Film Noir or Gangsters etc. sets, so I could try it? Or perhaps a common Criterion title that I'm more likely to have. I do not keep track of whether a disc has 1.0 or 2.0 mono, I just call it "Mono" in my DB, so would save me some trial and error.

I know you'll hate this, but I run all mono tracks through all 7 channels these days. The other channels add some ambience, make the room seem bigger...distributes the volume/power among the amps. No, I'm not a purist in that regard, but the sound seems "less screwed with" than when using Pro Logic etc. modes. Though there are some old mono tracks that have sufficient hiss that I do force a THX mode if necessary, it does help somewhat.
 

Tralis

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Some recievers like my Onkyo TX-SR805 allow the user to choose which speakers a mono track is output from, so I can choose between "2.0 mono" and center mono.
 

Jari K

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I don´t "hate it" obviously, since it´s not up to me to say what´s the "right choice". ;) But yes, I don´t really use those, at least with movies. Perhaps I could try them with some music..

My (main) problems with these "sound field programs" etc (generally) are as follows...

1) The film is already "mixed" by the professionals and such, so I don´t see that "A/V receiver" could add anything significant to that. Many 5.1-tracks are already "remixed" from the original anyway..

To me, e.g. "Mono"-track is just that, mono. It should come from the front ("front center" OR at least "front l/r"). To my ears that sounds "natural". And before someone asks ( ;) ), I´ll "accept" these new "5.1 remixes", IF everything is done professionally and the track just sounds "good and natural". And yes, if the disc has both the "original Mono" and "remixed 5.1", I probably choose 5.1. But - my ears will be the "final judge", channels are just "numbers" at the end of the day...

With e.g. "Stereo"-tracks, I might test the track first with "Pro Logic" from my receiver. If *everything* (also dialogue) "moves" to the rear channels (via "Pro Logic"), I´ll use "Stereo". If some ambience, surround-sounds, music, etc moves to the rears, BUT the dialogue mainly stays in the "front", I´ll probably use "Pro logic". Some "2.0 stereo"-tracks work rather well in "2.0 surround", but some doesn´t work that well..

At least this is what I did with my old receiver. I have to do some testing with my new one (when it comes to "2.0 stereo" and "2.0 surround").


2) Dialog. Like I said earlier, I´ve some major issues if the "normal" dialogue comes from the rear-channels also. It´s certainly not natural and "how it should be". Normal dialogue mainly comes (with 5.1 etc) from that "front center" only (obviously there might be some stereo-pans, directional sounds and such with dialogue, though).

So, if e.g. one mono-track comes from *every* 5 channels (front/rear), it also means, that the dialogue is coming from *every channel* (similar thing with some "Stereo"-track, when using that "Pro logic"). This doesn´t sound good to my ears (nor natural).

Now, there are also tracks (e.g. some DTS-tracks with some import-releases) that are "5.1", but are badly (re)mixed (or at least in a mediocre way for some reason - it´s hard to say for sure, that how they actually did the 5-1-mix). So you might have e.g. DTS 5.1-track, that has all the dialogue coming from every channel, there are no proper "directional elements" (perhaps not the best word, but..) or one-way-or-another the audio just sounds bad. So there are cases, where I´ve chosen e.g. "Stereo" from my receiver (OR from the disc, alternate audio choice), instead of "DTS 5.1". ;) e.g. "DTS" on the disc means very little (although with the "bigger" companies, you usually get quality remixes etc). You actually have to listen the track...

3) I´ve always stayed pretty much clear of these "sound field programs" and such, so I don´t really suddenly need them now. I guess that´s also one reason. I haven´t even tried any of these "programs" in the recent years.. ;)
So who knows, perhaps there are better options now (with e.g. Mono-sound) with these new A/V receivers...

How is e.g. that "7-channel Mono" working actually? Just curious.. Does the "whole track" moves to every channel or.. ?
 

CraigF

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I am typically not keen on 5.1 music mixes. It doesn't sound natural to me, but still some sound pretty good. Typically I prefer the (usually present) higher bit rate stereo track, but sometimes I like the different way the instruments were mixed on the 5.1 track better so I put up with the surround. Often it's strictly a matter of what I'm familiar with, when you're used to music sounding a certain way for decades, any change to the mix is offputting.

For those mono film tracks, each of the channels is getting the same sound. It still sounds like the sound is coming from the front. When you are surrounded by an originally "balanced" audio field, all it takes is a little nudge up of the front volume levels to make it seem like the sound is in front of you. In my case, though all my HT speakers are "decent", the center one (Paradigm Studio Reference CCsomething-or-other) is probably the least good and I prefer "distributing the volume" to the IMO better ones. Maybe time for a better center?? I did not mean I was using an ambience processing mode, I have never used that on any of my HT receivers so can't say what it sounds like.
 

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